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Republic Vs Democracy

Rich2018

Rich2018

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Does anyone think the the USA is NOT a democracy ?

If so, then why ?
 
We haven't been a true democracy since Bush signed the "Patriot" Act...
 
Abbazorkzog said:
We haven't been a true democracy since Bush signed the "Patriot" Act...
Click to expand...

The US government model was never intended to be a "true democracy."

On paper we are a constitutional republic but in practice... another story entirely.
 
Rich2018 said:
Does anyone think the the USA is NOT a democracy ?

If so, then why ?
Click to expand...

It has never been a "true" democracy, not since it's inception.

It is a Democratic Republic.

At state and local levels, most offices are filled by direct election. Then they "represent" those who elected them for a term until the next scheduled election.

At the start of this Republic, only Members of the House of Representatives were elected directly. Senators were appointed by State Legislatures, and the President has always been elected by the Electoral College.

Still, even with so many offices elected by popular vote, and even if the President were elected that way...our nation would not yet be a TRUE Democracy.

In a TRUE Democracy ALL decisions are determined by the votes of ALL citizens each and every time any such decision need be made.

Try to imagine 350 million people (much less all the billions on the world) having to vote for every single issue needing to be decided for the "national welfare?"
 
OrphanSlug said:
The US government model was never intended to be a "true democracy."

On paper we are a constitutional republic but in practice... another story entirely.
Click to expand...

A Republic is a form of democracy. What is your other story entirely? What are we.
 
Rich2018 said:
Does anyone think the the USA is NOT a democracy ?

If so, then why ?
Click to expand...

I believe technically we're a republic that chooses it's representatives via democratic elections.

An actual democracy would make policy decisions directly via vote, instead of our representative voting on our behalf. We have a bit of that at the state and local levels, but not at the national level.
 
Integrityrespec said:
A Republic is a form of democracy. What is your other story entirely? What are we.
Click to expand...

There's no requirement that a republic have any democratic features.

At a guess, I'd say the "other story entirely" would be related to how there are barriers to entry that prevent candidates that do not meet with the approval of the donor class from achieving any real success, effectively undermining the entire concept of a republic or a democracy.

A cynical fella might call it an oligarchy.
 
Captain Adverse said:
It has never been a "true" democracy, not since it's inception.

It is a Democratic Republic.

At state and local levels, most offices are filled by direct election. Then they "represent" those who elected them for a term until the next scheduled election.

At the start of this Republic, only Members of the House of Representatives were elected directly. Senators were appointed by State Legislatures, and the President has always been elected by the Electoral College.

Still, even with so many offices elected by popular vote, and even if the President were elected that way...our nation would not yet be a TRUE Democracy.

In a TRUE Democracy ALL decisions are determined by the votes of ALL citizens each and every time any such decision need be made.

Try to imagine 350 million people (much less all the billions on the world) having to vote for every single issue needing to be decided for the "national welfare?"
Click to expand...
Bingo! :thumbs:
 
Captain Adverse said:
It has never been a "true" democracy, not since it's inception.

It is a Democratic Republic.

At state and local levels, most offices are filled by direct election. Then they "represent" those who elected them for a term until the next scheduled election.

At the start of this Republic, only Members of the House of Representatives were elected directly. Senators were appointed by State Legislatures, and the President has always been elected by the Electoral College.

Still, even with so many offices elected by popular vote, and even if the President were elected that way...our nation would not yet be a TRUE Democracy.

In a TRUE Democracy ALL decisions are determined by the votes of ALL citizens each and every time any such decision need be made.

Try to imagine 350 million people (much less all the billions on the world) having to vote for every single issue needing to be decided for the "national welfare?"
Click to expand...



I think what you mean by a "true democracy" you mean a "Direct Democracy" (basically citizens voting on every issue) which has never happened in human history on a national level
The closest /largest direct democracy with be a workers collective factory or farm
Basically, you are right, it is impractical to have Direct Democracy for an area even as small as a single town

What "Western" democracies have is "Representative Democracy", where the people elect politicians to represent them for a period of time.
Note, they are representatives, not delegates
 
WillyPete said:
I believe technically we're a republic that chooses it's representatives via democratic elections.
Click to expand...

That makes the USA a Representative Democracy


An actual democracy would make policy decisions directly via vote, instead of our representative voting on our behalf. We have a bit of that at the state and local levels, but not at the national level.
Click to expand...

That is a Direct Democracy which has never existed and couldn't exist in anything larger than a workers collective farm or factory.
 
Rich2018 said:
That makes the USA a Representative Democracy
Click to expand...

If that's what you want to call our republic with democratic elections, that's fine with me.


That is a Direct Democracy which has never existed and couldn't exist in anything larger than a workers collective farm or factory.
Click to expand...

Yep, which is why it seems so strange to have people argue these things so strenuously. They insist it's a democracy, and then immediately start spinning up how that is maybe possibly, technically, almost true.
 
WillyPete said:
If that's what you want to call our republic with democratic elections, that's fine with me.
Click to expand...

Oh it's not just me

That's what it ***IS*** called

Google is your friend



Yep, which is why it seems so strange to have people argue these things so strenuously. They insist it's a democracy, and then immediately start spinning up how that is maybe possibly, technically, almost true.
Click to expand...


No, the USA is a REPRESENTATIVE democracy


Many posters will commit an equivocation fallacy and deny the USA is a democracy when they actually mean the USA is not a Direct Democracy, which it isn't.
 
Rich2018 said:
No, the USA is a REPRESENTATIVE democracy


Many posters will commit an equivocation fallacy and deny the USA is a democracy when they actually mean the USA is not a Direct Democracy, which it isn't.
Click to expand...

Your OP didn't specify, but thankfully you came prepared to pick nits.

Why is this important or interesting, and not just sort of pedants competition?
 
Rich2018 said:
What is your criteria for a democracy ?
Click to expand...

Basically what I meant is we are no longer a free country. There aren't many people versed in the nuance between various forms of government so I dumb things down too much sometimes.
 
WillyPete said:
Your OP didn't specify, but thankfully you came prepared to pick nits.
Click to expand...

A Representative Democracy is a type of democracy
Just like the USA's Constitutional Republic is a type of republic


Why is this important or interesting, and not just sort of pedants competition?
Click to expand...


Because it's important to understand what kind of political system you live in

And what words mean


Some people say they live in a republic or a democracy without a clue what that means.
 
Abbazorkzog said:
Basically what I meant is we are no longer a free country. There aren't many people versed in the nuance between various forms of government so I dumb things down too much sometimes.
Click to expand...

Freedom is overrated

Because you are never "free"

What freedoms have you lost


Though I have to admit Trump's latest attack on social media is definitely an attack on free speech, that if successful will be a freedom lost.
 
Rich2018 said:
Though I have to admit Trump's latest attack on social media is definitely an attack on free speech, that if successful will be a freedom lost.
Click to expand...

Yep, and we were set on this path by the Bush regime.
 
Rich2018 said:
Does anyone think the the USA is NOT a democracy ?

If so, then why ?
Click to expand...
Because it's not. It's Republic comprise 50 states with democratic governments. Each state democratically elects its own government and, in general, makes its own laws.
 
Bullseye said:
Because it's not. It's Republic comprise 50 states with democratic governments. Each state democratically elects its own government and, in general, makes its own laws.
Click to expand...

That's what a federal government does, but a Constitutional Monarchy ruled by a king, could divide the country up into states, which each state passing its own laws

Why can't a country be a republic and a democracy at the same time ?
 
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