• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Huge SCOTUS Victory for Integrity of Jury Trials

I agree with the verdict in theory, but I don't see how the SCOTUS has any say on this. The jury trial was provided fairly, as spelled out in the bill of rights, I don't remember reading in the constitution actual rules of conviction by juries, but I may have missed where the founders put unanimous into it. This should be up to the supreme court of the state.
 
I can see you're not a royalist.

I have a great deal of sympathy for Prince Charles, he was the first ever royal to go to a school and a university. He lived his life in a goldfish bowl but he always did his job.
He should've followed his heart and married Camilla - but she was a divorcee so he did what he was told and married that stuck up b***h Diana, who was just too young and stupid.

Charles had tried his best to be the heir to the throne for longer than most (if not all) kings have ruled. IDK if Charles actually want to be king though. When the queen dies, IDK who will be king.

But, would you want a king/queen as head of state or a politician ?

A non-executive President like they have in Germany, for example, need not be a politician. Any distinguished man or woman from any profession could serve for two or thee years. Retain the parliamentary system, little understood in the US, where the politics is done by a Prime Minister.
 
I showed up for jury duty.

When we were asked, "Does anyone work in law enforcement or have family or friends that do?" My hand went up.

Later on in the questioning, I replied that, "I come from a long line of peace officers and I work with law enforcement on a daily basis. I went on to include that, "I am more apt to believe the words of law enforcement than the words of someone from the criminal element."

Guess who was NOT selected......

Yay me.
 
That was then, this is the 21st century
Yes, in the 18th and 19th century I could well believe that a judge was a bigoted racist

Saying that the US judiciary is fundamentally racist because of what happened in the days of slavery, of racial segregation, and even the WWII laws that saw Japanese Americans interned because of an assumption on their loyalty based on race, is a very flawed argument to say the least

You'd make a better case arguing that Angela Merkel's German government is anti-Semitic, because the German government 1933-45 was.




Nope, by and large they're sheep possessing neither education nor a desire to get any

You claim that the US judiciary of educated, intelligent people, is fundamentally flawed with racism and can't be trusted to deliver honest, impartial judgments, yet you're willing to let uneducated, ignorant people deliver one ?
You'll have to explain that contradiction to me




10-4




And that's my point, don't you think a jury should decide your guilt/innocence based on the evidence and not personal feelings....yes they might well convict an innocent man based on their perception of his personal feelings towards them.
And are you saying that's a good thing ?


You might want to be judged by 12 ignorant people, who can barely read and whose judgement might be clouded by the fact I despise them, I do not. I'd refer to be judged by professional people
Unless of course I was guilty, then I'd play Mr Nice to the jury and my lawyer would perform like a seasoned actor to cast doubt in their minds that I really not such a bad guy




No, I think I am straight to the point in explaining why I wouldn't want a jury to judge me if I'm innocent

OK, if Trump appoints a judge it will probably mean he's right wing (eg: Brett Kavanaugh). But are you saying Trump's selections for SCOTUS are fundamentally racist or therefore untrustworthy to deliver the correct guilty/not guilty verdict in a felony trial ?




Sorry but the miscarriages of justice the US criminal justice system has delivered (OJ Simpson, Rodney King, George Zimmerman, Casey Anthony to name a few) are something worth "whining" about





Why do you say that the disparity of money is a problem in the inquisitorial system ?

It's a problem in the adversarial system, as a high powered lawyer can easily sway a jury full of legal "sheep". Not so much professional judges who ask the questions to the witnesses
There is not the court room drama in an inquisitorial system where the judges perform the witness examinations




Again, it really doesn't matter if your public defender is stupid in an inquisitorial system, all he/she has to do is present the witnesses/evidence to the court, the judges will examine the witnesses/evidence and decide their worth

The US system of a public defender who's over worked with 100 cases and can't conduct anything like a solid defense for you, is a further damnation of flawed system

Criminal justice should work well for the poor as well as the rich
The adversarial jury system does not - no way does a poor man get the same justice as a rich man - and that alone should see the jury system scrapped

"And Justice for All" - it's a sick joke




I did, and that is why I say scrap trial by jury and eliminate a two tier justice system that favors the rich and always will do.

You're running in circles again. I accept your surrender.
 
I agree with the verdict in theory, but I don't see how the SCOTUS has any say on this. The jury trial was provided fairly, as spelled out in the bill of rights, I don't remember reading in the constitution actual rules of conviction by juries, but I may have missed where the founders put unanimous into it. This should be up to the supreme court of the state.

Like many things in the Constitution, they're obsolete and relics of the past now.
 
A non-executive President like they have in Germany, for example, need not be a politician. Any distinguished man or woman from any profession could serve for two or thee years. Retain the parliamentary system, little understood in the US, where the politics is done by a Prime Minister.

Yes they could but you'd run the risk of a new president doing something totally undiplomatic


In Britain, the people would probably have voted for Princess Diana - now that would be a disaster.
 
I showed up for jury duty.

When we were asked, "Does anyone work in law enforcement or have family or friends that do?" My hand went up.

Later on in the questioning, I replied that, "I come from a long line of peace officers and I work with law enforcement on a daily basis. I went on to include that, "I am more apt to believe the words of law enforcement than the words of someone from the criminal element."

Guess who was NOT selected......

Yay me.


Yay...you worked the system
 
Yay...you worked the system

Seriously. You wouldn't want me as a juror in a criminal trial. I think I might have a little Judge Roy Bean in my D.N.A. I have a particular disdain for scumbags. I did everyone a favor by just being honest from the get go. Just being real.
 
Yes how dare we have representatives in the judicial system.

Because those "representatives" might one day have a conflict of interests between the right judgement and one the local people want. I'll give you an example of a decision by elected officials

This woman should have been tried for assault or even attempted murder, but she won't even face charges:

Woman arrested for shooting man fleeing Lincoln convenience store with stolen whiskey | Crime and Courts | journalstar.com



Your position is one of pure arrogance. Accountability means something.


Yes and it's NOT always what is most popular



Trial by peers is everyone's right, but can be refused to a bench trial, its not broke, why are you so intent to fix it?

Yes it's everyone's right but it shouldn't be


And it is broken

Sorry but the miscarriages of justice the US criminal justice system has delivered (OJ Simpson, Rodney King, George Zimmerman, Casey Anthony to name a few) are something worth being "arrogant" about.
 
Seriously. You wouldn't want me as a juror in a criminal trial. I think I might have a little Judge Roy Bean in my D.N.A. I have a particular disdain for scumbags. I did everyone a favor by just being honest from the get go. Just being real.

Yes, watch this video and understand skewed juror influence:

YouTube
 
OK Mr Liston, just hand over your belt on the way out...

On just about every thread you start repeating yourself. Then I have to repeat myself. then you repeat yourself all over again. Then it's down the rabbit hole, as you start side discussions over trivial points. Along the way you try to inflict straw man inferences and respond to that instead of what was actually said. After a couple of rounds of that even Sonny Liston would get bored. Usually you've surrendered any intellectual creativity by the 3nd round. And by the 5th round, I'm bored. And now I'm really bored. You surrendered on this thread long ago.
 
It’s a poor ruling based on emotion. The constitution does not require this for state courts

How is this decision based on emotion. Logically one could not maintain a beyond a reasonable doubt threshhold if one allows there to be reasonable doubt in the jury verdict.
 
Because those "representatives" might one day have a conflict of interests between the right judgement and one the local people want. I'll give you an example of a decision by elected officials

This woman should have been tried for assault or even attempted murder, but she won't even face charges:

Woman arrested for shooting man fleeing Lincoln convenience store with stolen whiskey | Crime and Courts | journalstar.com






Yes and it's NOT always what is most popular





Yes it's everyone's right but it shouldn't be


And it is broken

Sorry but the miscarriages of justice the US criminal justice system has delivered (OJ Simpson, Rodney King, George Zimmerman, Casey Anthony to name a few) are something worth being "arrogant" about.

Yep, sheer arrogance. If you truly think that people don't deserve the right to a trial by the jury of their peers, you are definitely part of the problem and entirely too inclined to authority to be worth being part of the answer.
 
Yes they could but you'd run the risk of a new president doing something totally undiplomatic


In Britain, the people would probably have voted for Princess Diana - now that would be a disaster.

Agreed, Diana would have been bad, but as a non-exec Pres even she could not have done much harm in her allotted two years, say.
 
Agreed, Diana would have been bad, but as a non-exec Pres even she could not have done much harm in her allotted two years, say.

A German or Irish style president in a parliamentary system is huge improvement on the US style presidential style of government. However the British Queen plays a huge diplomatic role that no honorary president can fulfill

Diana would have been a disaster as British president, doing great damage to British diplomacy and interests worldwide IMO

Do you event know who the German or Irish presidents are without looking it up ?

You just can't buy the kind of experience that the Queen has.
Most countries would kill to have diplomatic weight.
 
On just about every thread you start repeating yourself. Then I have to repeat myself. then you repeat yourself all over again. Then it's down the rabbit hole, as you start side discussions over trivial points. Along the way you try to inflict straw man inferences and respond to that instead of what was actually said. After a couple of rounds of that even Sonny Liston would get bored. Usually you've surrendered any intellectual creativity by the 3nd round. And by the 5th round, I'm bored. And now I'm really bored. You surrendered on this thread long ago.

How many times have you refused to debate further and instead written the inane phrase, "I accept your surrender" ?

A victory claim when surrounded by defeat....Hitler would approve in the last days of the battle for Berlin.

So every time to run off with your tail between your legs, squealing "I accept your surrender", I will liken your response to Liston's famous refusal to answer the bell.

I dare say Sonny Liston got "really bored" with Cassius Clay repeatedly punching him in the face.
 
Yep, sheer arrogance. If you truly think that people don't deserve the right to a trial by the jury of their peers, you are definitely part of the problem and entirely too inclined to authority to be worth being part of the answer.

Only the guilty want a trial by their "peers"

...especially if you're rich and with a team of expensive lawyers

Why do your believe the rich should have an advantage in the criminal justice system ?


Or do you believe that your average public defender is as good as a billionaire's legal team ?

Or are you actually proposing the state pays for expensive $500 p/hour lawyers to act as public defenders ?
 
Only the guilty want a trial by their "peers"

...especially if you're rich and with a team of expensive lawyers

Why do your believe the rich should have an advantage in the criminal justice system ?


Or do you believe that your average public defender is as good as a billionaire's legal team ?

Or are you actually proposing the state pays for expensive $500 p/hour lawyers to act as public defenders ?

Do you think you can put aside your erroneous assumptions and quit asking leading questions? Your lawyer envy is palpable.
 
How many times have you refused to debate further and instead written the inane phrase, "I accept your surrender" ?

A victory claim when surrounded by defeat....Hitler would approve in the last days of the battle for Berlin.

So every time to run off with your tail between your legs, squealing "I accept your surrender", I will liken your response to Liston's famous refusal to answer the bell.

I dare say Sonny Liston got "really bored" with Cassius Clay repeatedly punching him in the face.

you're a legend in your own mind.
 
Do you think you can put aside your erroneous assumptions and quit asking leading questions? Your lawyer envy is palpable.

You mean like that one ?

Do you think you can stop beating your wife ? (see what I mean)


So showing a video made by a lawyer is "lawyer envy" in your mind ?
I think you've exposed a key element of your psyche here...


A reference that undermines your world view is "envy" .... I wonder if what else your mind determines is "envy" ?
 
Back
Top Bottom