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Thread: California Democrats using Cvid to cancel the constitution, state of emergency until May!

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    Re: California Democrats using Cvid to cancel the constitution, state of emergency until May!

    Quote Originally Posted by EMNofSeattle View Post
    99.5% of the people who get the coronavirus will not even know it.
    So your plan, based on the advice from medical professionals, is....?

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    Re: California Democrats using Cvid to cancel the constitution, state of emergency until May!

    Quote Originally Posted by EMNofSeattle View Post
    It speaks for itself.

    Coronavirus: Los Angeles to shelter in place for months, mayor tells us - Business Insider

    Turns out all it took was the Chinese sniffles for fascism to take charge in America.

    This is a day after an Oxford study concluded it was likely that half of the UKs population was already exposed meaning total case fatality is far lower then the flu

    Half of United Kingdom Already Infected With Coronavirus, Says Oxford Model – Reason.com

    Also the main researcher behind the imperial college model that cited millions of deaths has basically admitted his model was deeply flawed and that actual fatalities are lower then his estimate. Orders of magnitude lower.

    UK has enough intensive care units for coronavirus, expert predicts | New Scientist

    So as the science begins to show we’ve overreacted, the liberal democrats are clamping down tighter.
    Has not Trump declared a state of emergency for the whole country ?

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    Re: California Democrats using Cvid to cancel the constitution, state of emergency until May!

    Quote Originally Posted by ttwtt78640 View Post
    How, exactly, is increasing annual federal spending by almost 50% erring on the side of caution? It seems to me that is tossing caution to the wind and pumping out borrowed money in every conceivable (some not even remotely justified) direction just so that elected morons can claim to have "acted immediately" and in "historic, bipartisan fashion".
    Think of it this way. Next time this happens we will know better how to handle it. This time we're just trying to do the best we can, even if it turns out badly.

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    Re: California Democrats using Cvid to cancel the constitution, state of emergency until May!

    Quote Originally Posted by hermit View Post
    Think of it this way. Next time this happens we will know better how to handle it. This time we're just trying to do the best we can, even if it turns out badly.
    I'll settle for we'll know who not to vote for come November 3rd.

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    Re: California Democrats using Cvid to cancel the constitution, state of emergency until May!

    Quote Originally Posted by Rich2018 View Post
    I'll settle for we'll know who not to vote for come November 3rd.
    That, too.

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    Re: California Democrats using Cvid to cancel the constitution, state of emergency until May!

    Quote Originally Posted by Irredentist View Post
    "The old model was wrong, here's a new model which is probably also wrong."

    No one knows what the **** is going to happen or how much danger we're really in. We're playing with fire and governments are erring on the side of caution. Who can blame them.
    Really? We are "playing with fire"? When you have KNOWN impacts (economic, social, and yes, life and health consequences) of actions, such as shutting down broad swaths of the global economy for protracted periods, shouldn't that require some substantiated threat of equal of greater impact? Each and every flu season COULD be a major threat, but we do not err on the side of shutting down the economy.

    The fact of the matter is that most people are overreacting to the very notion of "global pandemic" because of decades of Hollywood (for entertainment) and the "news" media (for ratings) giving people the subconscious notion that we are facing a real threat of the handful of human survivors facing a post-apocalyptic world like in The Stand or The Walking Dead (sans zombies). It has never happened, it will never happen, and there is reason to freak out like anything worse than the 1918 pandemic (which was before anything really resembling modern medicine existed) ever will (at least in the developed world).

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    Re: California Democrats using Cvid to cancel the constitution, state of emergency until May!

    Quote Originally Posted by hermit View Post
    That, too.
    "Flush the turd, on November third"

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    Re: California Democrats using Cvid to cancel the constitution, state of emergency until May!

    Quote Originally Posted by Marcus1124 View Post
    Really? We are "playing with fire"? When you have KNOWN impacts (economic, social, and yes, life and health consequences) of actions, such as shutting down broad swaths of the global economy for protracted periods, shouldn't that require some substantiated threat of equal of greater impact? Each and every flu season COULD be a major threat, but we do not err on the side of shutting down the economy.

    The fact of the matter is that most people are overreacting to the very notion of "global pandemic" because of decades of Hollywood (for entertainment) and the "news" media (for ratings) giving people the subconscious notion that we are facing a real threat of the handful of human survivors facing a post-apocalyptic world like in The Stand or The Walking Dead (sans zombies). It has never happened, it will never happen, and there is reason to freak out like anything worse than the 1918 pandemic (which was before anything really resembling modern medicine existed) ever will (at least in the developed world).
    The threat we face is not the destruction of human society, but rather the destruction of individual human lives. CoVid-19 is a new virus, of uncertain lethality, for which we currently have no vaccine, nor a reliable treatment of any kind. As such, and given that our healthcare system has only a limited capacity to provide intensive care to critically ill patients, the best approach is to limit the spread of coronavirus by whatever means necessary, so as to avoid unnecessary and preventable deaths.

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    Re: California Democrats using Cvid to cancel the constitution, state of emergency until May!

    Quote Originally Posted by Irredentist View Post
    The threat we face is not the destruction of human society, but rather the destruction of individual human lives. CoVid-19 is a new virus, of uncertain lethality, for which we currently have no vaccine, nor a reliable treatment of any kind. As such, and given that our healthcare system has only a limited capacity to provide intensive care to critically ill patients, the best approach is to limit the spread of coronavirus by whatever means necessary, so as to avoid unnecessary and preventable deaths.
    With every passing day we are receiving more and more data, and that data is showing the likely risk is less widespread and less lethal than the initial uncertainty.

    And no, the best approach to ANY issue is never to address it by "whatever means necessary". The things we are doing (to the severe detriment of our economic well being, which in and of itself WILL have costs in terms of life and health of actual people) could just as well be done every year to "avoid unnecessary and preventable deaths" from the flu, or automobile accidents, or any number of other causes of premature death that can be prevented. But we don't, no rational society would pursue any goal by "whatever means necessary". We always weigh the costs and the benefits, and those cost/benefit assessments routinely involve the trade off of lives for some other societal good. There is a reason we do not use "whatever means necessary...to avoid unnecessary and preventable" automobile accident deaths (we could all but do so by imposing a 5 MPH national speed limit and mandate that no vehicle can go faster than that). But we ALL recognize just how stupid that would be...its just most of us shield ourselves from the moral implications of the opposition to such a policy by simply dismissing it without much or any thought.

    The ONLY difference between the 5 MPH speed limit is that it is so intuitively obvious that the costs of imposing such a speed limit vastly outweigh the benefits (saving lives), that almost nobody would make the opposite case, saving us the moral discomfort with actually having to have the debate. The only difference here is that it is less straightforward and obvious with regard to the costs and the benefits with regard to this virus...but that is the very reason the discussion is needed, and it needs to involve thoughtful and reflective thinking, not reactionary, fear rather than evidence based assessments. As I have said previously, I am willing to bet that if we could design a survey to measure it, a large majority of people who think we aren't doing enough have a subconscious notion that the potential risk is far greater than even any scientist would deem reasonable...and would not support the same level of cost to be imposed on society for other things which are equally unknown in the precise risk. For example, the planet being hit by a massive asteroid WOULD actually wipe out most of human civilization. Unlike pandemics wiping out most live, the asteroid scenario has actually happened. Do you think there would be anything but derision if Trump (particularly Trump) were to announce that this was a risk to human life like no other, that we have no way of knowing when it will happen (though we can say with some certainty that at some point another massive asteroid WILL slam into the planet) and that we must devote so much of our economic resources to spotting and stopping such asteroids from destroying use that it would change our civilization in massive ways forever. Of course not.

    And if you don't think people have things they react a bit irrationally, relative to things of similar impact, look no further than gas prices. I remember several times in my lifetime when gas prices spiked, and people were driving miles and waiting in lines to save a few dollars to fill their tank when they were alerted to a station with lower prices. Yet ask those same people if they would be willing to spend 15 minutes going out of their way and waiting in line to save a few bucks on a similarly sized grocery bill, they would look at you like you were insane (nor would they ever consider working for an hourly rate equal to the time they would spend to save that same amount). People who would never work for $10 an hour would spend 30 minutes more than they would otherwise need to in order to save $5 on filling their gas tank.

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    Re: California Democrats using Cvid to cancel the constitution, state of emergency until May!

    Quote Originally Posted by Irredentist View Post
    "The old model was wrong, here's a new model which is probably also wrong."

    No one knows what the **** is going to happen or how much danger we're really in. We're playing with fire and governments are erring on the side of caution. Who can blame them.
    Governments, and the politicians that run governments, are in full blown CYA mode.

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