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**** the Founding Fathers

I entirely agree. Offer jobs and they will come, wall or not. Don't offer jobs and they won't come (and the existing ones will leave), even without a wall. The focus should be on drying out the illegal job sources. There would be no reason for illegal aliens to come here if they couldn't work here.

Jobs are the key. Better proof, since Canadians don't crave our jobs, they stay in Canada and there is no trouble in the Northern border whatsoever, although there is no wall there.

A 20-foot wall is only as good as a short ladder, and is defeated by a 21-foot ladder, tunnels, hot air balloons, small airplanes, boats around the shores, and most importantly, regular entry points with valid visas that people then overstay, which is the source of 50% of illegal immigration. Build a wall, make it slightly more difficult to come through illegal entry points, and simply, illegal aliens will tilt this balance in favor of the legal entry points (say, they'll become 80% instead of 50%, the other 20% will just get more creative and manage to fool the wall).

But stop the jobs, and absolutely, illegal immigration comes to a screeching halt.

The way to stop the jobs is to use the money that would have been spent on the wall, to hire an army of Department of Labor inspectors, and to reform the Penal Code to recommend hard mandatory prison time with long mandatory minimum sentences and no parole for the owners, CEOs, and high managers of the companies that hire illegal aliens, together with disabling fines and cancellation of business licenses.

Do that and there is no more illegal immigration. The first few CEOs that get thrown in jail for years, illegal immigration goes to close to zero.

But of course, both parties love to posture about it, but neither party does anything that would actually be effective to curb the problem.

The GOP wants to keep the issue alive to be able to posture about it, build some short stretches of wall, and rally their base around it, while of course they won't go after the powerful conglomerates in the hospitality industry, farming, construction, etc., that employ illegal aliens.

The Dems want to keep the issue alive to pander to Hispanic voters and ultra-liberal types who want an open border.

IMO, the ultra liberals are few.

Our impeached leader has/had companies that employed illegal immigrants.
And nothing happened to the people in his employment that hired them. Proving, even tRUMP doesn't really care about the issue. But will make the wall a priority because a voting block thinks it will solve the problem.
 
Really? I'm the one doing the twisting??? LOL

Look, you can't have the eggs and the omelette - what is it, the lack of evidence, or the lack of political will? Because, you know, it's the latter. The evidence was absolutely there. You just want to stick your head in the sand and ignore it. With you all, it's like that idea of Trump shooting someone by day light on 5th Avenue... NO evidence will ever be sufficient; you'll always look the other way.

The funny thing is that there was even less political support for impeaching Bill Clinton who was wildly more popular than Trump, but when the shoe is on the other foot, the GOP found it perfectly justified to do it (fortunately, it failed in the Senate due to the two thirds rule).

By the way, John Bolton heard it directly from the horse's mouth, no hearsay needed, but the GOP didn't want him to repeat it to the entire American people. That's called a cover-up. No, the people saying that the case against the president was proven were NOT Never Trumpers... they were actually staunch Trump allies. Their bona fides in this regard actually probably made them courageous enough to say it, since they weren't Never Trumpers, so they said it with impunity. The one Never Trumper who said it too, Mitt Romney, immediately became a pariah...

For those allies to say "the House case was proven, the President did what they say he did, but I just don't think it's enough for removal so I'll vote to acquit" when the Framers absolutely designed the very impeachment device precisely to avoid a president with a debt of gratitude to foreign powers who them would jeopardize America's security, is a joke.

I mean, he wasn't accused of lying about a blowjob... he was accused of blackmailing a foreign power, one involved in an armed conflict with our biggest geopolitical enemy, one that if toppled by said geopolitical enemy would jeopardize the equilibrium of power in Europe (these things are what leads to huge wars) and he tried to withdraw from that foreign power military aid allocated by Congress (he simply doesn't have this power, thus the abuse of power accusation), and then if the extorted foreign power complied, he'd owe them a debt of gratitude and would cheat in a domestic re-election campaign with their help (which is illegal according to US electoral law - the idea that he "committed no crime" is a joke) for his personal gain in an illegal quid-pro-quo, but noooooooo, this is not an impeachable offense, according to these GOP senators who actually acknowledged that he had done it... Ample evidence, ample testimony from multiple people, direct and indirect... If this is not impeachable, then let's abolish the constitutional device of impeachment all together because nothing is. The funny thing is that Trump has already denied his denial. I posted a thread about him admitting now to things he previously said he didn't do (where is the witch hunt, then?) now that he knows he can do whatever with impunity.

There was this cartoon, with the GOP elephant looking at a dead guy bleeding from a gunshot wound under the 5th Avenue street sign, and behind the elephant is John Bolton, and the elephant says "Nobody saw anything, right?" And Bolton behind him says "I did", the elephant ignores him and says, "OK, nobody?" Bolton insists "I saw it, he shot him, I saw him doing it, clear as day" and the elephant never turns to Bolton, continues to have his back to Bolton, and keeps saying "OK, if nobody saw it, there is no sufficient evidence; nothing to see here folks, let's move on."

oh my ****ing god

stop with all the damn hyperbole and crying

Clinton was impeached because he LIED...not because he got a blowjob...it was the perjury charge...and even with that, it wasnt enough to REMOVE him which i agreed with

and if Bolton REALLY had the goods, Pelosi had choices on what to do....she could have recalled the articles of impeachment, reopened the house inquiry, and then subpoenaed him to the house. But that was a RISKY move....he could have turned it down, and she would have looked even worse than now....he didnt WANT to tak, he wanted to sell his damn book....and KNEW the GOP and senate would NEVER call him....if you think anything differently, i have some oceanfront property in Flagstaff for sale

why did Nixon resign? because the PUBLIC demanded it....he knew the senate would convict, because the public wanted his HEAD ON A PIKE....and those percentages were near 75-80% nationally....dems, pubs, everyone!

That wasnt the case here....not even close....you can believe what you want....Pelosi screwed the pooch big time....one of the worst political blunders i have seen in 50+ years....and it might not just cost you the presidency, but the house also
 
As an Independent. I was convinced getting caught trying to bribe a foreign gov't to go after a potential political rival as worthy of putting out of office.

okay

asi am sure there were others

there werent ENOUGH....

there werent enough people calling their congressmen and senators asking for Trumps head on a pike

that is what happened to Nixon....public outcry makes a difference
 
If they were so smart, how come they didn’t foresee where the US finds itself today?


Tired of hearing about the FF and what they meant........

Just what kind of madness are we dealing with here? If the founding fathers had not come together, under God, and built our nation for conservative values, you would be speaking German right now.

Get my drift?
 
I entirely agree. Offer jobs and they will come, wall or not. Don't offer jobs and they won't come (and the existing ones will leave), even without a wall. The focus should be on drying out the illegal job sources. There would be no reason for illegal aliens to come here if they couldn't work here.

Jobs are the key. Better proof, since Canadians don't crave our jobs, they stay in Canada and there is no trouble in the Northern border whatsoever, although there is no wall there.

A 20-foot wall is only as good as a short ladder, and is defeated by a 21-foot ladder, tunnels, hot air balloons, small airplanes, boats around the shores, and most importantly, regular entry points with valid visas that people then overstay, which is the source of 50% of illegal immigration. Build a wall, make it slightly more difficult to come through illegal entry points, and simply, illegal aliens will tilt this balance in favor of the legal entry points (say, they'll become 80% instead of 50%, the other 20% will just get more creative and manage to fool the wall).

But stop the jobs, and absolutely, illegal immigration comes to a screeching halt.

That's not the only reason. Anyone who has a baby on US soil by virtue of their child will be able to get numerous forms of welfare: free healthcare, free schooling, free housing, free food, etc.
 
okay

asi am sure there were others

there werent ENOUGH....

there werent enough people calling their congressmen and senators asking for Trumps head on a pike

that is what happened to Nixon....public outcry makes a difference

True.
I never thought he was going to be removed from office. Unless some sort of smoking gun came out. For Nixon, there were tapes.
But the D's figured it would take to long to get any smoking gun, due to the non cooperation from the WH. As should be expected.
 
Just what kind of madness are we dealing with here? If the founding fathers had not come together, under God, and built our nation for conservative values, you would be speaking German right now.

Get my drift?

Did you just make up the under God part? I think you did.
 
That's not the only reason. Anyone who has a baby on US soil by virtue of their child will be able to get numerous forms of welfare: free healthcare, free schooling, free housing, free food, etc.

But that is such a small small portion of immigrants.
The vast vast majority came or come here to work.
 
Just what kind of madness are we dealing with here? If the founding fathers had not come together, under God, and built our nation for conservative values, you would be speaking German right now.

Get my drift?

1. Which god ?

2. Ever thought that if it wasn't for the Royal Navy and the British army, they'd speak French or Spanish in the New World ?
 
Did you just make up the under God part? I think you did.

A nation built on Christian ideas. 29 signers of the out of the total of 56 had divinity school training and were very well versed in theology. (Declaration of Independence)

The omnipresence of Christianity in America provided an undergirding to everything the Founders said and did. It was so common that most people, aside from an ultra-pious man like John Adams, did not delve deeply into the implications of their faith for every daily interaction. Yet how can one escape the fact that virtually all of the Republic’s early universities were founded by denominations with the intent of advancing the cause of Christ---and not some generic “Creator”? How does one reconcile the evidence of a long and tortured spiritual journey of Abraham Lincoln, who only “surrendered all” after Gettysburg? How can the divinity school training of so many early giants---and many later presidents, who studied theology formally---be cavalierly swept aside? And all this in a young nation in which the path to power and fame was anything but the clergy!
 
1. Which god ?

2. Ever thought that if it wasn't for the Royal Navy and the British army, they'd speak French or Spanish in the New World ?

The God of Abraham Isaac and Jacob.
We would be speaking German and we would all be under socialist control.
 
A nation built on Christian ideas. 29 signers of the out of the total of 56 had divinity school training and were very well versed in theology. (Declaration of Independence)

The omnipresence of Christianity in America provided an undergirding to everything the Founders said and did. It was so common that most people, aside from an ultra-pious man like John Adams, did not delve deeply into the implications of their faith for every daily interaction. Yet how can one escape the fact that virtually all of the Republic’s early universities were founded by denominations with the intent of advancing the cause of Christ---and not some generic “Creator”? How does one reconcile the evidence of a long and tortured spiritual journey of Abraham Lincoln, who only “surrendered all” after Gettysburg? How can the divinity school training of so many early giants---and many later presidents, who studied theology formally---be cavalierly swept aside? And all this in a young nation in which the path to power and fame was anything but the clergy!

And yet, many left England because of their christian church.
Set up the country to be secular. Free from the restrictions of religion.
 
The God of Abraham Isaac and Jacob.
We would be speaking German and we would all be under socialist control.

This is the second time I have seen you post this today. What past scenario gets us “speaking German?”
 
oh my ****ing god

stop with all the damn hyperbole and crying

Clinton was impeached because he LIED...not because he got a blowjob...it was the perjury charge...and even with that, it wasnt enough to REMOVE him which i agreed with

and if Bolton REALLY had the goods, Pelosi had choices on what to do....she could have recalled the articles of impeachment, reopened the house inquiry, and then subpoenaed him to the house. But that was a RISKY move....he could have turned it down, and she would have looked even worse than now....he didnt WANT to tak, he wanted to sell his damn book....and KNEW the GOP and senate would NEVER call him....if you think anything differently, i have some oceanfront property in Flagstaff for sale

why did Nixon resign? because the PUBLIC demanded it....he knew the senate would convict, because the public wanted his HEAD ON A PIKE....and those percentages were near 75-80% nationally....dems, pubs, everyone!

That wasnt the case here....not even close....you can believe what you want....Pelosi screwed the pooch big time....one of the worst political blunders i have seen in 50+ years....and it might not just cost you the presidency, but the house also

You do realize that to win a presidential election a candidate needs 50% + 1, right?
56% of Americans wanted Trump impeached and removed.
There are many reasons for Trump to win the election and for Dems to lose it... (I actually think it's the most likely outcome) but impeachment is not one of them, simply because the majority of Americans supported it, therefore the majority of Americans won't turn against the Dems because of it.

I know what happen to Bill Clinton. What part of what I said that he was impeached because he LIED about a blow job you don't understand? Where did I say he was impeached because he GOT a blow job? Please enhance your reading comprehension. From the very post you quoted: "lying about a blowjob" is what I said.

Everything else you said is just your denial, you won't condemn your cult leader.
 
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That's not the only reason. Anyone who has a baby on US soil by virtue of their child will be able to get numerous forms of welfare: free healthcare, free schooling, free housing, free food, etc.

Yep, true. I'd do away with this item too. We need a constitution amendment to do away with the anchor baby phenomenon. Virtually no other developed Western country has this rule in place. Everywhere, I child born in a country is only a citizen if at least one of the parents is a citizen or at the very least is in the country legally.

Try to go to Germany, enter illegally, have a baby there, and see if the baby gets to be a German citizen. Nope.
 
I entirely agree. Offer jobs and they will come, wall or not. Don't offer jobs and they won't come (and the existing ones will leave), even without a wall. The focus should be on drying out the illegal job sources. There would be no reason for illegal aliens to come here if they couldn't work here.

Jobs are the key. Better proof, since Canadians don't crave our jobs, they stay in Canada and there is no trouble in the Northern border whatsoever, although there is no wall there.

A 20-foot wall is only as good as a short ladder, and is defeated by a 21-foot ladder, tunnels, hot air balloons, small airplanes, boats around the shores, and most importantly, regular entry points with valid visas that people then overstay, which is the source of 50% of illegal immigration. Build a wall, make it slightly more difficult to come through illegal entry points, and simply, illegal aliens will tilt this balance in favor of the legal entry points (say, they'll become 80% instead of 50%, the other 20% will just get more creative and manage to fool the wall).

But stop the jobs, and absolutely, illegal immigration comes to a screeching halt.

The way to stop the jobs is to use the money that would have been spent on the wall, to hire an army of Department of Labor inspectors, and to reform the Penal Code to recommend hard mandatory prison time with long mandatory minimum sentences and no parole for the owners, CEOs, and high managers of the companies that hire illegal aliens, together with disabling fines and cancellation of business licenses.

Do that and there is no more illegal immigration. The first few CEOs that get thrown in jail for years, illegal immigration goes to close to zero.

But of course, both parties love to posture about it, but neither party does anything that would actually be effective to curb the problem.

The GOP wants to keep the issue alive to be able to posture about it, build some short stretches of wall, and rally their base around it, while of course they won't go after the powerful conglomerates in the hospitality industry, farming, construction, etc., that employ illegal aliens.

The Dems want to keep the issue alive to pander to Hispanic voters and ultra-liberal types who want an open border.

We should also stop letting them have housing, education, medical care(except in life or death situations without paying up front first), and end birthright citizenship.
 
We should also stop letting them have housing, education, medical care(except in life or death situations without paying up front first), and end birthright citizenship.

It wouldn't be impossible to require proof of citizenship or legal status to enroll in public schools, given that public schools are tax-funded. It's a bit problematic in terms of what paying mix exists locally because some public schools are funded with property taxes and through ownership or rent, illegals do pay property taxes. Still, like in other countries, we might be able to pass legislation to require citizenship or legal status for several acts of civil life, such as for example opening a banking account (it's already required, no? I actually don't know), but it's a slippery slope because other restrictions might be contrary to other freedoms. How, for example, would we prevent an illegal alien kid from attending a privately funded parochial school with his parents paying the tuition out of pocket? Same with housing, it might be difficult to prevent a private landlord from renting his property to an illegal alien paying in cash.

Medical care, absolutely. No non-emergency health care for illegal aliens unless paid out of pocket upfront, because there is no way to draw a line. If you give free healthcare to illegal aliens, the United States will become a medical tourism mecca... whoever has an expensive-to-treat medical condition in his/her country of origin and can't afford it, will come here for free care. Sure, if illegal aliens had medical insurance it would be a bit better for ERs, as they might get to primary care and stop conditions from becoming critical and lending them in the ER, but it wouldn't be cheaper for the taxpayer. Any savings made there would be largely upset by other medical expenses, given that ER care is only 10% of all US medical care. A transplant, a heart surgery, cancer chemotherapy, neurosurgery, etc., cost in the several hundred thousand dollars so this would offset ER care savings. See, a trip to an ER might cost $2,000 but a lung transplant costs $650,000, heart surgery costs $250,000, chemotherapy $300,000 and plus and so forth. No developed country in the world gives free medical care to illegal aliens outside of real emergencies; once the illegal alien is patched up and no longer risks imminent death, he/she is kicked out of the hospital. Even countries with universal health care do that.

Ending birthright citizenship unless at least one of the parents is legally here, I'd support too. It's this way in almost all developed countries.
 
I entirely agree. Offer jobs and they will come, wall or not. Don't offer jobs and they won't come (and the existing ones will leave), even without a wall. The focus should be on drying out the illegal job sources. There would be no reason for illegal aliens to come here if they couldn't work here.

Jobs are the key. Better proof, since Canadians don't crave our jobs, they stay in Canada and there is no trouble in the Northern border whatsoever, although there is no wall there.

A 20-foot wall is only as good as a short ladder, and is defeated by a 21-foot ladder, tunnels, hot air balloons, small airplanes, boats around the shores, and most importantly, regular entry points with valid visas that people then overstay, which is the source of 50% of illegal immigration. Build a wall, make it slightly more difficult to come through illegal entry points, and simply, illegal aliens will tilt this balance in favor of the legal entry points (say, they'll become 80% instead of 50%, the other 20% will just get more creative and manage to fool the wall).

But stop the jobs, and absolutely, illegal immigration comes to a screeching halt.

The way to stop the jobs is to use the money that would have been spent on the wall, to hire an army of Department of Labor inspectors, and to reform the Penal Code to recommend hard mandatory prison time with long mandatory minimum sentences and no parole for the owners, CEOs, and high managers of the companies that hire illegal aliens, together with disabling fines and cancellation of business licenses.

Do that and there is no more illegal immigration. The first few CEOs that get thrown in jail for years, illegal immigration goes to close to zero.

But of course, both parties love to posture about it, but neither party does anything that would actually be effective to curb the problem.

The GOP wants to keep the issue alive to be able to posture about it, build some short stretches of wall, and rally their base around it, while of course they won't go after the powerful conglomerates in the hospitality industry, farming, construction, etc., that employ illegal aliens.

The Dems want to keep the issue alive to pander to Hispanic voters and ultra-liberal types who want an open border.

you need to do a little more homework on WHERE illegals actually work

the left's mantra is "stop the jobs" and they will stop coming....

well, the CEO's you are talking about maybe employ 12-15% of the illegals working in the country....that's it

the majority work for other illegals in mostly cash businesses around neighborhoods...they do contract jobs such as gardening, mowing, landscaping, fencing, asphalt work....they do ALL types of home repair type work and reconstruction.....sometimes they work alone, and sometimes you will see them working in crews....they also run moving companies, local and interstate....very few are licensed or bonded, and almost none carry workers comp insurance so they usually UNDERBID the guys who do carry those extra expenses

those that arent working in those situations are running sidewalk businesses....selling vegetables, waters, whatever it takes to make a living....they live and work in the shadow economy costing our local and state agencies millions upon millions of dollars in regulation fees unpaid, and taxes never paid

i have had this conversation a hundred times easily, and not one person has been able to tell me how they are going to get rid of THOSE jobs....and that shadow economy.....which is where MOST of them work
 
If they were so smart, how come they didn’t foresee where the US finds itself today?

Tired of hearing about the FF and what they meant........

Passed over this several times but it irked me so much each time that I have to ask - where do you see the US 229 years from now? I would really like an accurate prediction.
 
If they were so smart, how come they didn’t foresee where the US finds itself today?


Tired of hearing about the FF and what they meant........

Maybe you would have been happier in the kitchen with the founding mothers baking cookies?
 
Passed over this several times but it irked me so much each time that I have to ask - where do you see the US 229 years from now? I would really like an accurate prediction.

My work here is done.............:mrgreen:
 
A good way to combat low workers wages is to raise wages. Then there'd be less poor workers eligible for EIC.
It is a very good way to get more spending to the working poor. Basically, the gov't subsidizes companies for low wages. You'll notice, it requires taxpayers to have kids to get the EIC. Better to give families more disposable income than to have kids malnourished.

From your link:

The EITC reduces poverty significantly, with children constituting half of the individuals it lifts out of poverty.
The EITC and CTC are effective in increasing after-tax income of targeted groups, reducing poverty, and reducing income inequality.

...
Earned income tax credit
The EITC was enacted during the Ford administration by the Tax Reduction Act of 1975. Originally, the EITC was supposed to be a temporary refundable tax credit for lower-income workers to offset the Social Security payroll tax and rising food and energy prices. The credit was made permanent by the Revenue Act of 1978. The EITC was considered both an anti-poverty program and an alternative to welfare because it incentivized work (Ventry 2000).
...

A good way to combat low workers wages is to raise wages

And how much do we raise the wage for someone who works at Burger king etc(Rolling eyes)?

From my link


It is criticized (sometimes implicitly but often explicitly) because it eliminates the income tax liability of many low-income workers, thus, it is claimed, giving them no “skin in the game” in support of the common good.1 Others criticize it for redistributing income to “people who have never paid a dime in their lives” but nevertheless “get a check from the government” (Sandmeyer 2013).


The EITC is, by far, the most progressive tax expenditure in the income tax code.
 
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No. I don't support people who don't vote.

Well, you shouldn't support people who do for they have created the mess we're in!

You remember all the problems I posted that you poo pooed?

Keep the faith



*Those who do not pay a Fed Income tax while others are FORCED to has increase under Trump/Gop Tax reform? Oh yes sir!

*We're 23 Trillion and GROWING in our National debt

*We're back to a 1 Trillion a year deficit(Obama era)

*We're at best 17th in the world in Education

*We have twice as mush legal immigration as we should have

*Did you know that we're on pace this fiscal year with 2015/2016 illegal immigration apprehensions? That sir was during the Obama era
 
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Well, you shouldn't support people who do for they have created the mess we're in!

You remember all the problems I posted that you poo pooed?

Keep the faith
The person I voted for is fixing things left and right and in under 3 years. So glad people like you don't vote. It makes it easier for America to succeed.
 
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