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**** the Founding Fathers

Rexedgar said:
If they were so smart, how come they didn’t foresee where the US finds itself today?


Tired of hearing about the FF and what they meant........
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Easy answer to your question. They did foresee where the US finds itself today. Ben Franklin famously stated in answer to a question from a woman that they(the framers) had given us(the people) a Republic, IF WE COULD KEEP IT.

Obviously we couldn't keep it.

The document did not fail, the weak and corrupt humans running the government failed.

If you want a dramatic explanation of how the people, not the document, failed, watch Oliver Stone's documentary "The Untold History of the United States" on Netflix. It documents that human error, not a failed document, has brought us to where we are.
 
The EC does the job perfectly....even when my candidate loses. Stop being a sore loser and pick better candidates. Although finding a decent human being on the Democrat side is now almost impossible.
 
Hawkeye10 said:
I was hearing sometime back from someone who is in a position to know that if one today walks into a so-called elite or upper crust university they would be hard pressed to find any book or writings in a curriculum that is older than 30 years.

Everyone assumes, without examination, that old equals useless in the modern world.

The Modern Morons stopped listening, mostly pursue fantasy instead.
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Such as? I can't believe University English classes aren't teaching Dumas, Verne, Cooper, etc. or examining the writings of Jefferson, Madison, Mason, Franklin and others.

Just like a RW university censoring certain books, I can see a LW university doing the same, but I can't see mainstream universities doing such a thing.
 
Rogue Valley said:
There was no way to cover every contingency.

The FF never envisioned someone as corrupt as Donald Trump as president nor a Senate as ethically emasculated as the GOP majority 116th.
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Agree.
 
AlphaOmega said:
Then explain what exactly you believe the forefathers had wrong. I don't see how having elections doesn't satisfy the left. Do you seriously expect that you should always be the winners in them? What is the iasue exactly?
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They won't be happy until everyone on Earth can vote in American elections...…………...for Democrats of course.
 
This thread is about Democrats have a pity party.
 
Vadinho said:
The people of America voted for Donald Trump by the tens of millions. I trust them to vote on a new constitution about as much as I trust Trump to tell the truth. No, this is a game for the experts. Our FFs were all learned men steeped in a classical education, they were not morons. We have people like that now but they would never be given the power to write a new constitution given the politics of today.
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More people voted against Trump than for him.

The founders may have had what passed for an education in the 18th century but you're right about one thing, the writing of a new constitution is something left to legal experts.

I think we can trust today's lawyers to write a clear constitution and not some simple, ambiguous lines that requires them to be read in a certain libertarian spirit and not be interpreted so many different ways.
 
Royal PITA said:
Such as? I can't believe University English classes aren't teaching Dumas, Verne, Cooper, etc. or examining the writings of Jefferson, Madison, Mason, Franklin and others.

Just like a RW university censoring certain books, I can see a LW university doing the same, but I can't see mainstream universities doing such a thing.
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What would be an example of a left wing university in the USA ?

And what evidence would you have of them censoring certain books ?
 
Rich2018 said:
More people voted against Trump than for him.

The founders may have had what passed for an education in the 18th century but you're right about one thing, the writing of a new constitution is something left to legal experts.

I think we can trust today's lawyers to write a clear constitution and not some simple, ambiguous lines that requires them to be read in a certain libertarian spirit and not be interpreted so many different ways.
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I think we agree that this should be left to the experts. The problem is that even experts are now biased experts. You can find experts on both sides of any debate. The true path forward is to find experts who honestly care more about the idea of America than their opinion of America. The one thing the founders had going for them was honestly in terms of philosophy and the history of law. Yes, you had some who had a bias but in aggregate, they were so focused on doing something unique and good that many of them admitted their own prejudices and did what was right because it was good. Were there compromises? Yes. Were there intense philosophical debates about obscure issues that are not part of our public discourse today? Yes. If we could find men and women of that caliber today, I would trust them. But the constitution would not allow it. Any new convention is bound by the constitution and restrictions placed upon it by a small nation of 13 colonies in 1790. Today, most of the people live in a few states. Why should they cowtow to states with very few people? Is there something in the water of Wyoming that should give their opinions more credence then a person in New York or Texas? No. We are now so polarized that I would never accept this version of America to think beyond their own horizons. Sad but that is the state we are in today.
 
Rich2018 said:
More people voted against Trump than for him.

The founders may have had what passed for an education in the 18th century but you're right about one thing, the writing of a new constitution is something left to legal experts.

I think we can trust today's lawyers to write a clear constitution and not some simple, ambiguous lines that requires them to be read in a certain libertarian spirit and not be interpreted so many different ways.
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Same for Hillary: More people voted against her than for her.


In today’s toxic environment, we’d more likely end up with 2-4 different countries than a single Constitution. The original Constitution required controversial compromises such as the 3/5’s compromise just to pass ratification of all 13 colonies.

As it is, I doubt our nation could ratify a single amendment much less an entire rewrite of the Constituiton....unless we broke up the US into different countries.
 
Nope...2025...He hasn't done anything illegal...unlike NObama
 
Rexedgar said:
If they were so smart, how come they didn’t foresee where the US finds itself today?


Tired of hearing about the FF and what they meant........
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Would you consider their document of no avail?
 
Rexedgar said:
If they were so smart, how come they didn’t foresee where the US finds itself today?


Tired of hearing about the FF and what they meant........
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It's not like the FF had women or people of color in mind when they made that country ruled by and for White Men to exploit all others. And, if you ask most white men today, they will say things are going exactly as they want them to go. Just read your thread.
 
AlphaOmega said:
Stop blubbering. You can vote in November to stop the emotuonal pain you are experiencing. Thank the forefathers. Unfortunately for you the forefathers did not think of a way in which everyone can win and election.
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You can vote in November to stop the emotuonal pain you are experiencing
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Sorry pal, I don't participate in voting in a Prez election


Our citizenry is broken, therefore our political system is broken


That is my "emotional " pain(wink)
 
Luther said:
Sorry pal, I don't participate in voting in a Prez election


Our citizenry is broken, therefore our political system is broken


That is my "emotional " pain(wink)
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If you don't vote then I find that harious.
 
Rexedgar said:
If they were so smart, how come they didn’t foresee where the US finds itself today?


Tired of hearing about the FF and what they meant........
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I would rather say our constitution needs and upgrade to 2.0. What was good two hundred and fifty years ago doesn't necessarily apply today. Law should be like a river, flowing and alive and always changing. Not written in stone for ages and ages.
 
AlphaOmega said:
If you don't vote then I find that harious.
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Well, I find it more intriguing why you do?

I still vote for a local election if I think it would have a chance
 
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