Page 78 of 78 FirstFirst ... 2868767778
Results 771 to 778 of 778

Thread: **** the Founding Fathers

  1. #771
    Advisor
    Join Date
    Nov 2017
    Location
    Southern Oregon
    Last Seen
    Today @ 05:55 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    414

    Re: **** the Founding Fathers

    Rich, most of the men that fought for the South never owned slaves, they were fighting because of the oppression of the Northern States on the South.
    No, the colonist did not fight for "nationalism" for each State at that time was a sovereign nation, each State fought to preserve itself. They band together because fighting as a collective is much better than fighting by ones self.

    Like I said before, you would benefit greatly by reading the book, Compact of the Republic by David Benner. This is not a political book, it doesn't lean left or right, it is however a very good read on how and why we have a Republican form of government.
    Vietnam Veteran Jan 69-Aug 70
    Member of MOPH
    Disabled Veterans Of America

  2. #772
    Sage
    Tigerace117's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2016
    Location
    Chicago
    Last Seen
    Today @ 09:50 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    26,037

    Re: **** the Founding Fathers

    Quote Originally Posted by Terryj View Post
    Rich, most of the men that fought for the South never owned slaves, they were fighting because of the oppression of the Northern States on the South.
    No, the colonist did not fight for "nationalism" for each State at that time was a sovereign nation, each State fought to preserve itself. They band together because fighting as a collective is much better than fighting by ones self.

    Like I said before, you would benefit greatly by reading the book, Compact of the Republic by David Benner. This is not a political book, it doesn't lean left or right, it is however a very good read on how and why we have a Republican form of government.
    “Oppression of the northern states on the south”

    Yeah, that’s a delusion load of crap.

    Up until the election of Abraham Lincoln, it was the South which controlled the federal government. Southern projects were emphasized, such as preserving slavery and protecting slave hunters; northern interests, like a transcontinental railroad, ignored. Trying to pretend the South was “oppressed” is simply ignorant. The only oppressed people in the south were the slaves who they went to war to try and keep.

  3. #773
    Advisor
    Join Date
    Nov 2017
    Location
    Southern Oregon
    Last Seen
    Today @ 05:55 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    414

    Re: **** the Founding Fathers

    Quote Originally Posted by Tigerace117 View Post
    “Oppression of the northern states on the south”

    Yeah, that’s a delusion load of crap.

    Up until the election of Abraham Lincoln, it was the South which controlled the federal government. Southern projects were emphasized, such as preserving slavery and protecting slave hunters; northern interests, like a transcontinental railroad, ignored. Trying to pretend the South was “oppressed” is simply ignorant. The only oppressed people in the south were the slaves who they went to war to try and keep.
    Tigerace, I don't know what history books you have read, but most likely it's the propaganda found in most public schools.

    The South controlled the government, so your telling me that it was the South that had the federal government impose protectionist tariffs on Southern goods so they could sale them to the Northern States at a reduced cost? I'm not going to go through this all again because it has been debated ad nauseum in another thread.
    Vietnam Veteran Jan 69-Aug 70
    Member of MOPH
    Disabled Veterans Of America

  4. #774
    User
    Join Date
    Mar 2020
    Location
    MN
    Last Seen
    Today @ 01:53 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Slightly Conservative
    Posts
    30

    Re: **** the Founding Fathers

    Quote Originally Posted by Rexedgar View Post
    If they were so smart, how come they didn’t foresee where the US finds itself today?


    Tired of hearing about the FF and what they meant........
    I don't think we are giving the Founding Fathers enough credit here.I mean come on, they built the oldest and greatest country in the world!

  5. #775
    Sage
    Tigerace117's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2016
    Location
    Chicago
    Last Seen
    Today @ 09:50 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    26,037

    Re: **** the Founding Fathers

    Quote Originally Posted by Terryj View Post
    Tigerace, I don't know what history books you have read, but most likely it's the propaganda found in most public schools.

    The South controlled the government, so your telling me that it was the South that had the federal government impose protectionist tariffs on Southern goods so they could sale them to the Northern States at a reduced cost? I'm not going to go through this all again because it has been debated ad nauseum in another thread.
    The South was the one which desperately wanted war with Mexico in order to spread slavery. The north saw it as an unjustified land grab. Guess what we did?

    The South was allowed to send squads of guerrillas to attack those who opposed slavery in places like Kansas and Missouri. Outlaws like the James brothers got their start in those roving bands of thugs, who were some of the most sadistic out there.

    Time and time again legislation was pushed through to support or protect slavery and slavers. The Compromise of 1850, which was supposed to have settled the issue, was violated over and over in order to expand slavery as much as possible.

    In the run up to the war southern sympathizers were allowed to loot federal armories to equip their slaver forces.

    Southerners literally physically attacked those who opposed slavery on multiple occasions with impunity.

    Southerners nearly got us into a shooting match with Spain over Cuba decades before the Spanish American War.

    Pretending the South was oppressed is simply ignorant.

  6. #776
    Guru
    Vadinho's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    California
    Last Seen
    Today @ 06:39 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Very Liberal
    Posts
    2,746

    Re: **** the Founding Fathers

    Quote Originally Posted by Tigerace117 View Post
    The South was the one which desperately wanted war with Mexico in order to spread slavery. The north saw it as an unjustified land grab. Guess what we did?

    The South was allowed to send squads of guerrillas to attack those who opposed slavery in places like Kansas and Missouri. Outlaws like the James brothers got their start in those roving bands of thugs, who were some of the most sadistic out there.

    Time and time again legislation was pushed through to support or protect slavery and slavers. The Compromise of 1850, which was supposed to have settled the issue, was violated over and over in order to expand slavery as much as possible.

    In the run up to the war southern sympathizers were allowed to loot federal armories to equip their slaver forces.

    Southerners literally physically attacked those who opposed slavery on multiple occasions with impunity.

    Southerners nearly got us into a shooting match with Spain over Cuba decades before the Spanish American War.

    Pretending the South was oppressed is simply ignorant.
    Well said. Your opponent seems to believe in the Lost Cause. Cotton and tobacco were the most lucrative trade items in the entire US at the time, all grown in the South. Slavery was the key and power sharing became the tool the South attempted with the Missouri Compromise and the war with Mexico. The South wanted more slave states so they could protect the institution of slavery from Northern Abolitionists. All the rest is Lost Cause garbage.
    Ubuntu: I am because we are.

    'The law, in its majestic equality, forbids rich and poor alike to sleep under bridges, to beg in the streets, and to steal their bread.' Anatole France

  7. #777
    Advisor
    Join Date
    Nov 2017
    Location
    Southern Oregon
    Last Seen
    Today @ 05:55 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    414

    Re: **** the Founding Fathers

    Quote Originally Posted by Tigerace117 View Post
    The South was the one which desperately wanted war with Mexico in order to spread slavery. The north saw it as an unjustified land grab. Guess what we did?

    The South was allowed to send squads of guerrillas to attack those who opposed slavery in places like Kansas and Missouri. Outlaws like the James brothers got their start in those roving bands of thugs, who were some of the most sadistic out there.

    Time and time again legislation was pushed through to support or protect slavery and slavers. The Compromise of 1850, which was supposed to have settled the issue, was violated over and over in order to expand slavery as much as possible.

    In the run up to the war southern sympathizers were allowed to loot federal armories to equip their slaver forces.

    Southerners literally physically attacked those who opposed slavery on multiple occasions with impunity.

    Southerners nearly got us into a shooting match with Spain over Cuba decades before the Spanish American War.

    Pretending the South was oppressed is simply ignorant.
    Again, I don't know where you get your information, it wasn't the Southern States that wanted Cuba, it was the U.S. Government. The U.S government wanted Cuba to be a bulwark to protect the Caribbean and Gulf of Mexico from outside interests. The U.S. proposed to buy Cuba from Spain but Spain declined to sale, this all took place back in the 1840's and it had nothing to do with slavery. I could go into detail on this but I'm afraid it would fall on deaf ears.
    Vietnam Veteran Jan 69-Aug 70
    Member of MOPH
    Disabled Veterans Of America

  8. #778
    Sage
    Tigerace117's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2016
    Location
    Chicago
    Last Seen
    Today @ 09:50 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    26,037

    Re: **** the Founding Fathers

    Quote Originally Posted by Terryj View Post
    Again, I don't know where you get your information, it wasn't the Southern States that wanted Cuba, it was the U.S. Government. The U.S government wanted Cuba to be a bulwark to protect the Caribbean and Gulf of Mexico from outside interests. The U.S. proposed to buy Cuba from Spain but Spain declined to sale, this all took place back in the 1840's and it had nothing to do with slavery. I could go into detail on this but I'm afraid it would fall on deaf ears.
    Ostend Manifesto - Wikipedia

    “ During the administration of President Franklin Pierce, a pro-Southern Democrat, Southern expansionists called for acquiring Cuba as a slave state, but the outbreak of violence following the Kansas–Nebraska Act left the administration unsure of how to proceed. At the suggestion of Secretary of State William L. Marcy, American ministers in Europe—Pierre Soulé for Spain, James Buchanan for Great Britain, and John Y. Mason for France—met to discuss strategy related to an acquisition of Cuba. They met secretly at Ostend, Belgium, and drafted a dispatch at Aachen, Prussia. The document was sent to Washington in October 1854, outlining why a purchase of Cuba would be beneficial to each of the nations and declaring that the U.S. would be "justified in wresting" the island from Spanish hands if Spain refused to sell. To Marcy's chagrin, Soulé made no secret of the meetings, causing unwanted publicity in both Europe and the U.S. The administration was finally forced to publish the contents of the dispatch, which caused it irreparable damage.”

    “Cuba was of special importance to Southern Democrats, who believed their economic and political interests would be best served by the admission of another slave state to the Union. The existence of slavery in Cuba, the island's plantation economy based on sugar, and its geographical location predisposed it to Southern influence;[5] its admission would greatly strengthen the position of Southern slaveholders, whose way of life was under fire from Northern abolitionists.[6] Whereas immigration to Northern industrial centers had resulted in Northern control of the population-based House of Representatives, Southern politicians sought to maintain the fragile balance of power in the Senate, where each state received equal representation. As slavery-free Western states were admitted, Southern politicians increasingly looked to Cuba as the next slave state.[7][8] If Cuba were admitted to the Union as a single state, the island would have sent two senators and up to nine representatives to Washington.[note 1]”

    No, it is pretty clear that it was southerners and slavers who desperately wanted Cuba in order to expand the “peculiar institution”. It had everything to do with slavery.

    Again, your ignorance is showing.

Page 78 of 78 FirstFirst ... 2868767778

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •