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Thread: **** the Founding Fathers

  1. #21
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    Re: **** the Founding Fathers

    Quote Originally Posted by HumblePi View Post
    This is the comment that I replied to:



    I gave a comprehensive and logical explanation as to why things of today couldn't even be imagined by men that lived two hundred and forty three years ago. So, what's your problem exactly?
    Yes......and what exactly did they not forsee? So far I am not seeing one thing they got wrong nor have you listed one. If I came off as gruff I apologize. I am simply looking for responses. As a constitutionalist I always find this type of topic fascinating.

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    Re: **** the Founding Fathers

    Quote Originally Posted by Rexedgar View Post
    If they were so smart, how come they didn’t foresee where the US finds itself today?
    They did. But the mechanisms they set into place to prevent a slide into a dictatorship (balance of powers, competition between branches, the Electoral College, impeachment etc) have a hard time stopping a mendacious authoritarian with no conscience and no shame, who has co-opted an entire political party.
    "Everyone should listen to me all the time about everything." - Rosa Diaz

    "I don’t take responsibility at all." - Donald Trump

  3. #23
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    Re: **** the Founding Fathers

    Quote Originally Posted by Rexedgar View Post
    If they were so smart, how come they didn’t foresee where the US finds itself today?


    Tired of hearing about the FF and what they meant........
    They were smart and wise enough to forge a nation out of chaos and create the world's greatest democracy. The fact we f***ed it all up is not on them. That's like blaming our parents for flunking out of college. At some point, we have to accept responsibility for our own actions.
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  4. #24
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    Re: **** the Founding Fathers

    Quote Originally Posted by Hawkeye10 View Post
    They did their best they could to help us, it was we who stopped listening, this is our fault.
    Agreed. Worse, we keep screwing it up by failing to hold our leaders to a higher standard and by condoning corruption. Instead most just point fingers and blame everyone but themselves.
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  5. #25
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    Re: **** the Founding Fathers

    Quote Originally Posted by Royal PITA View Post
    Agreed. Worse, we keep screwing it up by failing to hold our leaders to a higher standard and by condoning corruption. Instead most just point fingers and blame everyone but themselves.
    I was hearing sometime back from someone who is in a position to know that if one today walks into a so-called elite or upper crust university they would be hard pressed to find any book or writings in a curriculum that is older than 30 years.

    Everyone assumes, without examination, that old equals useless in the modern world.

    The Modern Morons stopped listening, mostly pursue fantasy instead.
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  6. #26
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    Re: **** the Founding Fathers

    Quote Originally Posted by Hawkeye10 View Post
    I was hearing sometime back from someone who is in a position to know that if one today walks into a so-called elite or upper crust university they would be hard pressed to find any book or writings in a curriculum that is older than 30 years.

    Everyone assumes, without examination, that old equals useless in the modern world.

    The Modern Morons stopped listening, mostly pursue fantasy instead.
    Well, I, too, am in a position to know, and I can tell you this is horse-pucky. Elite universities still teach Plato, Aristotle, Aeschylus, Virgil, Dante, Shakespeare, Ficino, Descartes, Hume, Kant, Smith, etc--which fact anyone can verify by going to the relevant department web pages and looking at current class schedules. Philosophy, history, humanities, and literature departments most usually make that information available to the public. For example, the Harvard Department of Philosophy this semester is teaching classes in early modern philosophy (which typically will cover the major ideas of Descartes, Spinoza, Leibniz, Arnauld, Locke, Berkeley, Hume, Reid, and Kant), Plato, early Chinese philosophy (typically covering Laozi, Juangzi, Mozi, Kungzi, Mengzi, Huinzi), Marx and Hegel, Wittgenstein, etc. Similarly, the University of Chicago English Literature department is currently teaching classes including texts by authors such as Choderlos de Laclos, Jane Austen, Gustave Flaubert, the Medieval Grail Romances, John Donne, Daniel Defoe, etc.

    Most universities, the elite ones in particular, still require all undergrads to go through basic humanities, philosophy, and history courses covering the major works of the Western tradition.

  7. #27
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    Re: **** the Founding Fathers

    Quote Originally Posted by Rexedgar View Post
    If they were so smart, how come they didn’t foresee where the US finds itself today?


    Tired of hearing about the FF and what they meant........
    Because they're not fortune tellers? No one is going to have that level of foresight when developing a system of governance. They did fear political parties and their ability to undo everything, so in that sense they were on the money.
    Last edited by ElChupacabra; 02-12-20 at 09:07 PM.

  8. #28
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    Re: **** the Founding Fathers

    Quote Originally Posted by Felis Leo View Post
    A country at peace where most conflict consists of us yelling at each other and screaming at the moon instead of murdering each other on streets and battlefields?

    A booming economy as the result of incredible technology with affordable high standards of living for the vast majority of citizens?

    A country in which slavery was abolished and the descendants of slaves actually have a chance to achieve the highest levels of wealth and government office?

    Yeah. They really screwed the pooch and set us down the wrong path, Rexedgar. Better to have remained a country Balkanized among the English, French and Spanish Empires.

    I think Ben was prophetic in his “if you can keep it” statement.
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  9. #29
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    Re: **** the Founding Fathers

    Quote Originally Posted by ashurbanipal View Post
    Well, I, too, am in a position to know, and I can tell you this is horse-pucky. Elite universities still teach Plato, Aristotle, Aeschylus, Virgil, Dante, Shakespeare, Ficino, Descartes, Hume, Kant, Smith, etc--which fact anyone can verify by going to the relevant department web pages and looking at current class schedules. Philosophy, history, humanities, and literature departments most usually make that information available to the public. For example, the Harvard Department of Philosophy this semester is teaching classes in early modern philosophy (which typically will cover the major ideas of Descartes, Spinoza, Leibniz, Arnauld, Locke, Berkeley, Hume, Reid, and Kant), Plato, early Chinese philosophy (typically covering Laozi, Juangzi, Mozi, Kungzi, Mengzi, Huinzi), Marx and Hegel, Wittgenstein, etc. Similarly, the University of Chicago English Literature department is currently teaching classes including texts by authors such as Choderlos de Laclos, Jane Austen, Gustave Flaubert, the Medieval Grail Romances, John Donne, Daniel Defoe, etc.

    Most universities, the elite ones in particular, still require all undergrads to go through basic humanities, philosophy, and history courses covering the major works of the Western tradition.
    I have learned by now to deeply discount your assertions.

    Because I am not a moron.
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  10. #30
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    Re: **** the Founding Fathers

    Quote Originally Posted by Hawkeye10 View Post
    I have learned by now to deeply discount your assertions.

    Because I am not a moron.
    No need to form any opinions--I've told you where to go to find out the truth, and you can do so with the click of a mouse. Crucially, so can others reading this exchange (and given that the information is in black-and-white at the links below, who do you think any reasonable person is going to believe, hmmm?). You forgot the first principle of telling a lie: whatever you're going to lie about, make sure it's not so easy to discover the truth. Here's the Harvard link:

    Courses | Department of Philosophy

    Here's the one for the University of Chicago:

    Courses | Department of English Language and Literature

    Here are a few more, just chosen at random:

    Humanistic Studies | Princeton University

    Current Courses | Philosophy

    https://history.columbia.edu/wp-content/uploads/sites/20/2019/12/Spring-2020-History-Courses-12.12.19.pdf



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