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Does the Constitution make America a Christian nation?

KJ Bible believing people. Who follow God's laws and plans for us. :)

(let the bashing begin)

Why should protestants get to trample the religious and secular rights of everyone else? I'm sure the Catholics would have something to say about this. This is what caused the religious wars in Europe and Northern Ireland (The Troubles) that you didn't learn from.
 
Tada! And here it goes
Do not think I am going to allow you to play the persecuted Christian card.

I am asking very obvious questions with religious and historical precedents to support it. We have a strict separation of church and state to prevent it from happening again in the US because the frames experienced it and wanted to prevent it from happening both for the stability of the government and for the rights of the citizens with minority religious beliefs. You have the right to believe and worship as you choose but you cannot use the power of the state to trample the religious or secular rights of others and to enforce your religious beliefs as law with the power of the state.
 
Do not think I am going to allow you to play the persecuted Christian card.

I am asking very obvious questions with religious and historical precedents to support it. We have a strict separation of church and state to prevent it from happening again in the US because the frames experienced it and wanted to prevent it from happening both for the stability of the government and for the rights of the citizens with minority religious beliefs. You have the right to believe and worship as you choose but you cannot use the power of the state to trample the religious or secular rights of others and to enforce your religious beliefs as law with the power of the state.

The insulting manner in which you responded is a clue to how you will respond.
 
The insulting manner in which you responded is a clue to how you will respond.

How are the facts insulting? Do you expect me to wash and kiss your feet so as to not insult your religious beliefs? Why are your religious beliefs any more worthy than those of anyone else of being enforced as secular law and be the basis of the Constitution?
 
1. But that's not true since lots of people and organized groups want to stop prayer in school as I showed you.
2.) The good reason is to stop the indoctrination of children and to separate church from state
3.) People have a right to expect schools to respect the Constitution and if individual teachers want to spread their religious message, they should do so in their own time and away from public property.
4.) If you agree with this, then I apologies for arguing against you.

1.) it is true and you showed "me" nothing of value and factual reality . . lots of people? good grief . . nutters are not lots of people and they have no power to change rights . .
2.) again what in the world are you talking about? indoctrination of children and to separate church from state?
3.) i agree who are all these people that you claim that dont? is English your first language? again what country are you from how did anything you just posted related to what i said and where in the world in america is this goin on in
4.) apology accepted but you didnt argue against me. Nothing you said made sense or had to do with me or my post it was just left field babble that didnt relate bad made no sense.
 
1.) it is true and you showed "me" nothing of value and factual reality . . lots of people? good grief . . nutters are not lots of people and they have no power to change rights . .
2.) again what in the world are you talking about? indoctrination of children and to separate church from state?
3.) i agree who are all these people that you claim that dont? is English your first language? again what country are you from how did anything you just posted related to what i said and where in the world in america is this goin on in
4.) apology accepted but you didnt argue against me. Nothing you said made sense or had to do with me or my post it was just left field babble that didnt relate bad made no sense.

Of all the people here who shouldn't actually have it out, you two are high on the list.

You're on the same side.
 
This is a big question in this country these days. There are many who 'believe' that Christianity and the Bible brought about the Constitution that formed the United States of America.

At a rally at a church in Miami, last week Trump said, “Very soon I’ll be taking action to safeguard students and teachers’ First Amendment rights to pray in our schools. They want to take that right along with many other ones.” Who are these horrible "They"?

What prayers will be pushed into public schools? What faith will be promoted by government regulations? A clause in the U.S. Constitution prohibits the government from promoting one religion over the other, which means public schools don’t promote prayer or religious symbols. Well --- public schools aren't supposed to promote prayer or have religious symbols in their buildings or on the grounds.

What did the Founding Fathers think about religion and its place in society? Did they use the Bible to formulate the laws of the new nation?

No. The people who founded this country were mostly Christians and created laws that were also Christian laws. A good law no matter what the origin should be used. To do otherwise is just stupid.
 
Of all the people here who shouldn't actually have it out, you two are high on the list.

You're on the same side.

there are no "sides" though ;)
but i do agree with you in ways lol their posts make no sense so maybe you can go back to post 16 and explain to them where they went wrong, made their unexplainable mistake and help them
 
No. The people who founded this country were mostly Christians and created laws that were also Christian laws. A good law no matter what the origin should be used. To do otherwise is just stupid.

The framers weren't conservative Christians but were commonly desists. They were also very aware of the various religious wars in Europe and were very careful to put in place laws to prevent religious warfare from happening here. This is why we have the Establishment Clause in the 1st Amendment to create a wall of separation between church and state and to protect the religious rights of minorities from being trampled by the Christian population majority. The secular and religious rights of others are not determined by the religious beliefs of Christians in the US and are not to be voted on by the citizens at the ballot box. That is why we have the Bill of Rights to make equal rights for all people and not just the social or religious majority.
 
there are no "sides" though ;)
but i do agree with you in ways lol their posts make no sense so maybe you can go back to post 16 and explain to them where they went wrong, made their unexplainable mistake and help them

I'm going to back away from this on a gorgeous California delta afternoon.

I know there are no sides.

There are those who get it, and.... others.

If you're in some place where things are good?

More power to ya.
 
1.) it is true and you showed "me" nothing of value and factual reality . . lots of people? good grief . . nutters are not lots of people and they have no power to change rights . .
2.) again what in the world are you talking about? indoctrination of children and to separate church from state?
3.) i agree who are all these people that you claim that dont? is English your first language? again what country are you from how did anything you just posted related to what i said and where in the world in america is this goin on in
4.) apology accepted but you didnt argue against me. Nothing you said made sense or had to do with me or my post it was just left field babble that didnt relate bad made no sense.

1. What do you define "lots" then? Are you calling groups like the Freedom From Religion Foundation, "nutters" for arguing that state run schools observe the Constitution ? The seek to preserve not change rights.
2. Yes, both are valid goals. Don't preach god to children in state schools and separate state (schools) from religion (compulsory prayers to a certain god)
3. Yes, English is my first language, is it yours ? The Freedom From Religion Foundation is but one group opposed to schools conducting prayers, in school buildings.
4. Then you're not reading correctly and are trying to make a correlation between numbers and right. You appear to be saying that if the majority of people want prayers in school, then it's OK. Please correct me if I mis-understood you.
 
1.) I'm going to back away from this on a gorgeous California delta afternoon.
2.)I know there are no sides. There are those who get it, and.... others.
3.) If you're in some place where things are good? More power to ya.

1.) hahaha good move enjoy it, not so gorgeous today here in the burgh
2.) very true!!
3.) i typically always am . . its my natural wiring . . kinda of lucky that way

Have fun!
 
1.) hahaha good move enjoy it, not so gorgeous today here in the burgh
2.) very true!!
3.) i typically always am . . its my natural wiring . . kinda of lucky that way

Have fun!

Well, shizznat, bruder, I had NO idea where you were!

Most people won't get this.

I've never lived there, but Pittsburgh is an enticing city. Just gorgeous. Wierd layout.

Exceptionally good people.

I'd live there in a CA second.
 
Well, shizznat, bruder, I had NO idea where you were!

Most people won't get this.

I've never lived there, but Pittsburgh is an enticing city. Just gorgeous. Wierd layout.

Exceptionally good people.

I'd live there in a CA second.

LOL yep born and raised. Currently about 30 mins south but just easier to say Pittsburgh...

and i have to agree there are exceptionally good people here. I didnt realize that until i was older and traveled a lot more.
 
1. What do you define "lots" then? Are you calling groups like the Freedom From Religion Foundation, "nutters" for arguing that state run schools observe the Constitution ? The seek to preserve not change rights.
2. Yes, both are valid goals. Don't preach god to children in state schools and separate state (schools) from religion (compulsory prayers to a certain god)
3. Yes, English is my first language, is it yours ? The Freedom From Religion Foundation is but one group opposed to schools conducting prayers, in school buildings.
4. Then you're not reading correctly and are trying to make a correlation between numbers and right. You appear to be saying that if the majority of people want prayers in school, then it's OK. Please correct me if I mis-understood you.

Holy nuttiness . . again its like you are reading somebody else posts, are you drinking? LMAO

to address the bolded since its where all your nonsensical replies have flew of the rails theres nothing i said in any fashion whatsoever that even rationally hints at such a claim and thats where your mistake is and you have been corrected multiple times now. If you are still having trouble with this fact I have no idea how to help because again you are failing at basic English and context. The best I have to offer is maybe go back and read the post i was replying to and then my post again, if that doesnt work its simply your issue to deal with lol sorry.
 
LOL yep born and raised. Currently about 30 mins south but just easier to say Pittsburgh...

and i have to agree there are exceptionally good people here. I didnt realize that until i was older and traveled a lot more.

That's literally how the world works.

Welcome aboard, Three Rivers Guy.
 
That's literally how the world works.

Welcome aboard, Three Rivers Guy.

HAHAHAHA very true . . .
I guess I was just shocked over how in general people are way more personable here and have a basic level of respect/manners that some places have basically none of . . .

I havent been to a lot of places but another place like it is suburbs of Chicago, very similar. The other place i have been arent all bad by any means but definitely lesser in that category.
 
This is a big question in this country these days. There are many who 'believe' that Christianity and the Bible brought about the Constitution that formed the United States of America.

At a rally at a church in Miami, last week Trump said, “Very soon I’ll be taking action to safeguard students and teachers’ First Amendment rights to pray in our schools. They want to take that right along with many other ones.” Who are these horrible "They"?

What prayers will be pushed into public schools? What faith will be promoted by government regulations? A clause in the U.S. Constitution prohibits the government from promoting one religion over the other, which means public schools don’t promote prayer or religious symbols. Well --- public schools aren't supposed to promote prayer or have religious symbols in their buildings or on the grounds.

What did the Founding Fathers think about religion and its place in society? Did they use the Bible to formulate the laws of the new nation?

Certainly, the Founding Fathers did not believe the Establishment Clause prohibited prayer in public school, since they started their day in Congress with prayer.

The Founding Fathers would be hemorrhaging over the secularization of our country. Guaranteed.

Also, the fundamental tenants of our Constitution rest in judeo-Christian mores.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Certainly, the Founding Fathers did not believe the Establishment Clause prohibited prayer in public school, since they started their day in Congress with prayer.

The Founding Fathers would be hemorrhaging over the secularization of our country. Guaranteed.

Also, the fundamental tenants of our Constitution rest in judeo-Christian mores.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



Grammar first - the word you should have used is TENETS - noun: a principle or belief, especially one of the main principles of a religion or philosophy. Often confused as we can read here on DP with "TENANTS" - noun: persons who occupy land or property rented from a landlord.

History for the uneducated
The Founders of the United States were a mixed bag of devout Christians, social Christians and Deists. Some of them changed their beliefs during their lifetimes and some didn't. John Adams, for example, went from being a person who believed in the standard Christianity of his period to being a Deist later in life. Many of the Founders attended universities that were as much seminaries as what we see as today's liberal arts colleges. Patrick Henry was one of those Christians who believed Virginia should support Christian churches - a 'liberal' idea in that period, as other states supported just one church. State support of one church, taxing all residents to support that one faith, was the reason that Thomas Jefferson wrote his infamous "Letter to the Danbury Baptists".

When Jefferson established the University of Virginia, he was adamant that there would be no ministers among the teachers of the new school

James Madison, between 1820 and 1830, wrote a series of essays known as the “Detached Memoranda,” on a range of topics, including religious freedom.

In one essay, Madison asked the question, “Is the appointment of Chap*lains to the two Houses of Congress consistent with the Constitution, and with the pure principle of religious freedom?”

He then answers himself: “In strictness the answer on both points must be in the negative. The Constitution of the U.S. forbids everything like an establishment of a national religion. The law ap*pointing Chaplains establishes a religious wor*ship for the national representatives, to be performed by Ministers of religion, elected by a majority of them; and these are to be paid out of the national taxes. Does not this involve the principle of a national establishment, applicable to a provision for a religious worship for the Constituent as well as of the representative Body, approved by the majority, and conducted by Ministers of religion paid by the entire nation[?]”

Concludes Madison, “The establishment of the chaplainship to Cong(res)s is a palpable violation of equal rights, as well as of Constitutional principles.”

Madison's notes written during the Constitutional Convention failed to mention the Bible as the source for any reasoning behind the governance of the new nation.

In his, Defence of the Constitutions of Government of the United States of America, John Adams also never noted any connection between the kingdoms found in the Old and New Testament and the form of government established under the Constitution.

I have serious doubts that the Founders would be "hemorrhaging" over the reduction in the influence of Christianity on our modern society but that's just my opinion, an opinion supported by actual history.
 
Holy nuttiness . . again its like you are reading somebody else posts, are you drinking? LMAO

Are you researching ?

LMAOROTFL


to address the bolded since its where all your nonsensical replies have flew of the rails theres nothing i said in any fashion whatsoever that even rationally hints at such a claim and thats where your mistake is and you have been corrected multiple times now. If you are still having trouble with this fact I have no idea how to help because again you are failing at basic English and context. The best I have to offer is maybe go back and read the post i was replying to and then my post again, if that doesnt work its simply your issue to deal with lol sorry.

So what are you saying?

If the majority of people want payers in scholl then it's OK

or

Prayers in school are OK regardless of the level of public support


You do a poor job at explaining your position.
 
1.) Are you researching? LMAOROTFL
2.)So what are you saying? If the majority of people want payers in scholl then it's OK
or
Prayers in school are OK regardless of the level of public support
3.)You do a poor job at explaining your position.

1.) no research is needed to see the factual mistake and nuttiness in your reply
2.) none of that was said and again any assumption of that makes ZERO sense
3.) facts prove otherwise since YOU are the only one confused and made up a bunch of irrational stuff that had nothing to do with my post LMAO

Like i said your mistake and problems are yours, if reading the post i was replying too and re-reading my post doesnt help you then i certainly cant fix your type of irrational assumptions and mistakes. Good luck to you!

Maybe try with some other basic questions so you can avoid your mistakes because nobody has a clue what you are talking about in regards to my post.
 
Certainly, the Founding Fathers did not believe the Establishment Clause prohibited prayer in public school, since they started their day in Congress with prayer.

The Founding Fathers would be hemorrhaging over the secularization of our country. Guaranteed.

Also, the fundamental tenants of our Constitution rest in judeo-Christian mores.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Jefferson had a few choice words about religious belief.

No religious reading, instruction or exercise, shall be prescribed or practiced [in the elementary schools] inconsistent with the tenets of any religious sect or denomination."

Source: Thomas Jefferson, Note to Elementary School Act, 1817.

"In every country and in every age, the priest has been hostile to liberty. He is always in alliance with the despot, abetting his abuses in return for protection to his own."

Source: Letter of Thomas Jefferson to Horatio G. Spafford, March 17, 1814.

"I consider the government of the United States as interdicted by the Constitution from intermeddling with religious institutions, their doctrines, discipline, or exercises. This results not only from the provision that no law shall be made respecting the establishment or free exercise of religion, but from that also which reserves to the states the powers not delegated to the United States. Certainly, no power to prescribe any religious exercise or to assume authority in religious discipline has been delegated to the General Government. It must then rest with the states, as far as it can be in any human authority."

Source: Letter of Thomas Jefferson to Samuel Miller, 1808.

We the General Assembly of Virginia do enact that no man shall be compelled to frequent or support any religious worship, place, or ministry whatsoever, nor shall be enforced, restrained, molested, or burthened in his body or goods, nor shall otherwise suffer, on account of his religious opinions or belief; but that all men shall be free to profess, and by argument to maintain, their opinions in matters of religion, and that the same shall in no wise diminish, enlarge, or affect their civil capacities.

— Virginia Statute for Religious Liberty

“The government of the United States is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion.”

—John Adams
 
1.) no research is needed to see the factual mistake and nuttiness in your reply...

Why bother to research when you have prejudice coupled with ignorance?


2.) none of that was said and again any assumption of that makes ZERO sense

To someone who does no research and relied on ignorant personal opinion, I can believe that


3.) facts prove otherwise since YOU are the only one confused and made up a bunch of irrational stuff that had nothing to do with my post LMAO

What facts? You don't do research remember? You've got your highly personal OPINIONS


Like i said your mistake and problems are yours, if reading the post i was replying too and re-reading my post doesnt help you then i certainly cant fix your type of irrational assumptions and mistakes. Good luck to you!

Maybe try with some other basic questions so you can avoid your mistakes because nobody has a clue what you are talking about in regards to my post.

Reading your unsubstantiated opinions is hardly any help to anyone.

Congratulations, another post full of personal opinion and utterly devoid of facts and factual evidence.
 
Why bother to research when you have prejudice coupled with ignorance?




To someone who does no research and relied on ignorant personal opinion, I can believe that




What facts? You don't do research remember? You've got your highly personal OPINIONS




Reading your unsubstantiated opinions is hardly any help to anyone.

Congratulations, another post full of personal opinion and utterly devoid of facts and factual evidence.

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!!! Holy triggered posted meltdown and lies batman!!!
The best part of your posted meltdown and failed lies is that its still 100% your mistake. Your posts dont even making sense and have nothing to do with what I actually posted they are so hilariously angry over a made up fantasy in your head that was never said :laughat:

go ahead, post another meltdown its awesome!!!


:popcorn2:
 
How are the facts insulting? Do you expect me to wash and kiss your feet so as to not insult your religious beliefs? Why are your religious beliefs any more worthy than those of anyone else of being enforced as secular law and be the basis of the Constitution?

More sarcasm. :) The final answer though, is that I am entitled to my opinion, just as everyone else here is.
 
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