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Does the Constitution make America a Christian nation?

Somerville

Somerville

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This is a big question in this country these days. There are many who 'believe' that Christianity and the Bible brought about the Constitution that formed the United States of America.

At a rally at a church in Miami, last week Trump said, “Very soon I’ll be taking action to safeguard students and teachers’ First Amendment rights to pray in our schools. They want to take that right along with many other ones.” Who are these horrible "They"?

What prayers will be pushed into public schools? What faith will be promoted by government regulations? A clause in the U.S. Constitution prohibits the government from promoting one religion over the other, which means public schools don’t promote prayer or religious symbols. Well --- public schools aren't supposed to promote prayer or have religious symbols in their buildings or on the grounds.

What did the Founding Fathers think about religion and its place in society? Did they use the Bible to formulate the laws of the new nation?
 
No... (end thread.)
 
Somerville said:
This is a big question in this country these days. There are many who 'believe' that Christianity and the Bible brought about the Constitution that formed the United States of America.

At a rally at a church in Miami, last week Trump said, “Very soon I’ll be taking action to safeguard students and teachers’ First Amendment rights to pray in our schools. They want to take that right along with many other ones.” Who are these horrible "They"?

What prayers will be pushed into public schools? What faith will be promoted by government regulations? A clause in the U.S. Constitution prohibits the government from promoting one religion over the other, which means public schools don’t promote prayer or religious symbols. Well --- public schools aren't supposed to promote prayer or have religious symbols in their buildings or on the grounds.

What did the Founding Fathers think about religion and its place in society? Did they use the Bible to formulate the laws of the new nation?
Click to expand...

Find the word Christian in the Constitution.

If you look at other writings of the Founders, i think it's pretty clear they did not.
 
Somerville said:
This is a big question in this country these days. There are many who 'believe' that Christianity and the Bible brought about the Constitution that formed the United States of America.

At a rally at a church in Miami, last week Trump said, “Very soon I’ll be taking action to safeguard students and teachers’ First Amendment rights to pray in our schools. They want to take that right along with many other ones.” Who are these horrible "They"?

What prayers will be pushed into public schools? What faith will be promoted by government regulations? A clause in the U.S. Constitution prohibits the government from promoting one religion over the other, which means public schools don’t promote prayer or religious symbols. Well --- public schools aren't supposed to promote prayer or have religious symbols in their buildings or on the grounds.

What did the Founding Fathers think about religion and its place in society? Did they use the Bible to formulate the laws of the new nation?
Click to expand...

“Our constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other.” - John Adams
 
Crovax said:
“Our constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other.” - John Adams
Click to expand...

The quote comes from Adams letter to the "Officers of the first Brigade of the third Division of the Militia of Massachusetts" 11 Oct 1798
But should the people of America once become capable of that deep simulation towards one another, and towards foreign nations, which assumes the language of justice and moderation, while it is practising iniquity and extravagance, and displays in the most captivating manner the charming pictures of candour, frankness, and sincerity, while it is rioting in the rapine and insolence, this country will be the most miserable habitation in the world. Because we have no government armed with the power capable of contending with human passions unbridled by morality and religion. Avarice, ambition, revenge, and licentiousness would break the strongest cords of our Constitution, as a whale goes through a net. Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other.

Later in his life, John Adams wrote to Thomas Jefferson, thanking him for the loan of books written by Charles Francois Dupuis
For the last year or two I have devoted myself to this kind of study, and have read fifteen volumes of Grimm, seven volumes of Tucker's Neddy Search, twelve volumes of Dupuis, and Tracy's Analysis, and four volumes of Jesuitical History! Romances all! I have learned nothing of importance to me, for they have made no change in my moral or religious creed, which has, for fifty or sixty years, been contained in four short words, "Be just and good." In this result they all agree with me.

Dupuis may be seen as one of the earliest promoters of the "mythical Christ" thesis.

Although the U.S. Constitution arose in a Christian culture in which certain natural rights were widely believed to be God-given, its drafters looked more to Athens and Rome than to Mt. Sinai for pragmatic, actionable insights about democracy, republicanism, federalism, and separation of powers.
 
Crovax said:
“Our constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other.” - John Adams
Click to expand...

Meanwhile, Jefferson took his Bible and cut and pasted the New Testament so that it would reflect a more deist belief and took out things like the miracles and resurection. BTW, for many decades from 1900 to 1960 (I think, double check me on the years), copies of it were given to Congress...
 
rocket88 said:
Find the word Christian in the Constitution.

If you look at other writings of the Founders, i think it's pretty clear they did not.
Click to expand...

The American Christian government complex revival took place in the 1950's. When people say, "Back in the day", they think they are referencing 1776. They are actually referencing 1957. Traditional Christianity was known by early Americans but it wasn't predominant as it is now. Evangelical Christianity wasn't even invented until the mid 1800's. Historically Christians weren't retarded. The retardation of Christianity didn't happen until the evangelical movement took root.

In the past Christians were intelligent and thinking people. Read the Westminister Confession or the Second London Baptist Confession. They were written in the 1600's by brilliant people. Read a Chic Trac. The Chic Tracs were written by retards in the late 1900's. The retarded form of Christianity that we have today was not even known to early Americans.
 
It is also fun to note that the Presbyterian movement of the 17th century believed in being heavily involved in the shaping of government. The Baptists of the 17th century wanted no part in the affairs of government. Baptists were even the champions of separation of church and state. Those intelligent Baptists of that time knew that Bible literalism was too retarded for normal people. Now Baptists do not even realize the retardation of taking the Bible literally.

I guess the Baptist of that time actually read the Bible and knew it was a tough sale. The Baptist of today think it is a totally reasonable position to take.

They must not have read the verses that says God will use the ways of the foolish to confound the wise. They must not have read about their obligation to be not conformed to the world but to be rather transformed. Believing the Bible literally is a gift for the few. That position is impossible for the masses.
 
gooseneck said:
The American Christian government complex revival took place in the 1950's. When people say, "Back in the day", they think they are referencing 1776. They are actually referencing 1957. Traditional Christianity was known by early Americans but it wasn't predominant as it is now. Evangelical Christianity wasn't even invented until the mid 1800's. Historically Christians weren't retarded. The retardation of Christianity didn't happen until the evangelical movement took root.

In the past Christians were intelligent and thinking people. Read the Westminister Confession or the Second London Baptist Confession. They were written in the 1600's by brilliant people. Read a Chic Trac. The Chic Tracs were written by retards in the late 1900's. The retarded form of Christianity that we have today was not even known to early Americans.
Click to expand...

Have you read this book? Robot Check

I did and it was fascinating. american theocracy is the book.
 
Somerville said:
This is a big question in this country these days. There are many who 'believe' that Christianity and the Bible brought about the Constitution that formed the United States of America.

At a rally at a church in Miami, last week Trump said, “Very soon I’ll be taking action to safeguard students and teachers’ First Amendment rights to pray in our schools. They want to take that right along with many other ones.” Who are these horrible "They"?

What prayers will be pushed into public schools? What faith will be promoted by government regulations? A clause in the U.S. Constitution prohibits the government from promoting one religion over the other, which means public schools don’t promote prayer or religious symbols. Well --- public schools aren't supposed to promote prayer or have religious symbols in their buildings or on the grounds.

What did the Founding Fathers think about religion and its place in society? Did they use the Bible to formulate the laws of the new nation?
Click to expand...

Theocracy is 100 percent incompatible with democracy in a secular constitutional republic.
We have fought wars over this.

The United States of America does not have an official religion.
 
Somerville said:
This is a big question in this country these days. There are many who 'believe' that Christianity and the Bible brought about the Constitution that formed the United States of America.

At a rally at a church in Miami, last week Trump said, “Very soon I’ll be taking action to safeguard students and teachers’ First Amendment rights to pray in our schools. They want to take that right along with many other ones.” Who are these horrible "They"?

What prayers will be pushed into public schools? What faith will be promoted by government regulations? A clause in the U.S. Constitution prohibits the government from promoting one religion over the other, which means public schools don’t promote prayer or religious symbols. Well --- public schools aren't supposed to promote prayer or have religious symbols in their buildings or on the grounds.

What did the Founding Fathers think about religion and its place in society? Did they use the Bible to formulate the laws of the new nation?
Click to expand...

No.
Separation of church and state.
Freedom to choose any religion or no religion.
 
Somerville said:
This is a big question in this country these days. There are many who 'believe' that Christianity and the Bible brought about the Constitution that formed the United States of America.

At a rally at a church in Miami, last week Trump said, “Very soon I’ll be taking action to safeguard students and teachers’ First Amendment rights to pray in our schools. They want to take that right along with many other ones.” Who are these horrible "They"?

What prayers will be pushed into public schools? What faith will be promoted by government regulations? A clause in the U.S. Constitution prohibits the government from promoting one religion over the other, which means public schools don’t promote prayer or religious symbols. Well --- public schools aren't supposed to promote prayer or have religious symbols in their buildings or on the grounds.

What did the Founding Fathers think about religion and its place in society? Did they use the Bible to formulate the laws of the new nation?
Click to expand...


I don't think many of the founders were religious and probably thought religion would die out of it's own accord and without any help from government one way or the other. But then, they also thought slavery would eventually die out, too...so neither the word religion or slavery was mentioned in the constitution. The establishment clause was written after the fact...but it affirms the founders intent not to have government help or hinder religion.

In the age of enlightenment...I think the founders thought religion was going to become a relic of the past and mankind would become wiser for it.
 
Somerville said:
This is a big question in this country these days. There are many who 'believe' that Christianity and the Bible brought about the Constitution that formed the United States of America.

At a rally at a church in Miami, last week Trump said, “Very soon I’ll be taking action to safeguard students' and teachers’ First Amendment rights to pray in our schools. They want to take that right along with many other ones.” Who are these horrible "They"?

What prayers will be pushed into public schools? What faith will be promoted by government regulations? A clause in the U.S. Constitution prohibits the government from promoting one religion over the other, which means public schools don’t promote prayer or religious symbols. Well --- public schools aren't supposed to promote prayer or have religious symbols in their buildings or on the grounds.

What did the Founding Fathers think about religion and its place in society? Did they use the Bible to formulate the laws of the new nation?
Click to expand...

Do you trust the words of Thomas Jefferson? He was very clear on this idea.

"Christianity neither is, nor ever was a part of the common law." Source: Letter of Thomas Jefferson to Dr. Thomas Cooper, February 10, 1814. "Question with boldness even the existence of a god; because if there be one he must approve of the homage of reason more than that of blindfolded fear."
Click to expand...

Jefferson reported triumphantly that the legislative effort to insert “Jesus Christ” in the preamble to the Virginia Statute was defeated, establishing that religious freedom was “meant to comprehend, within the mantle of it’s protection, the Jew and the Gentile, the Christian and Mahometan, the Hindoo and infidel of every denomination.”9
Click to expand...

Believing with you that religion is a matter which lies solely between Man & his God, that he owes account to none other for his faith or his worship, that the legitimate powers of government reach actions only, & not opinions, I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should "make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof," thus building a wall of separation between Church & State. Adhering to this expression of the supreme will of the nation in behalf of the rights of conscience, I shall see with sincere satisfaction the progress of those sentiments which tend to restore to man all his natural rights, convinced he has no natural right in opposition to his social duties.
Click to expand...

We have the Establishment Clause in the First Amendment that creates a strict wall of separation between religion and the government so all people have equal secular and religious rights, and religion cannot be enforced as civil law in the US. That concept would not exist oof the US was created as a Chritian coountry.
 
Crovax said:
“Our constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other.” - John Adams
Click to expand...

John Adams was not a Christian.

Adams was raised a Congregationalist, but ultimately rejected many fundamental doctrines of conventional Christianity, such as the Trinity and the divinity of Jesus, becoming a Unitarian.
Click to expand...
 
Somerville said:
1.) Does the Constitution make America a Christian nation?
2.)At a rally at a church in Miami, last week Trump said, “Very soon I’ll be taking action to safeguard students and teachers’ First Amendment rights to pray in our schools. They want to take that right along with many other ones.” Who are these horrible "They"?
3.) What prayers will be pushed into public schools?
4.) What faith will be promoted by government regulations?
5.) A clause in the U.S. Constitution prohibits the government from promoting one religion over the other, which means public schools don’t promote prayer or religious symbols. Well --- public schools aren't supposed to promote prayer or have religious symbols in their buildings or on the grounds.
6.) What did the Founding Fathers think about religion and its place in society? Did they use the Bible to formulate the laws of the new nation?
Click to expand...

1.) No it factually does not
2.) nobody real wants to take away the right to pray in school so those people are bat**** insane conspiracy theorist
3.) none it cant be
4.) none it cant be
5.) correct but they can be on the grounds brought by others
6.) the constitution already answers that question by not allowing use to be a Christian nation or any religion nation

all these nutters and loons are the same no matter what religion they happen to claim the do not represent that religion

As a Christian my religious rights are fully protected here in the us and they aren't being infringed on in any way. CLaims otherwise are not taken seriously by any honest educated objective people right left center religious and non
 
AGENT J said:
1.)..nobody real wants to take away the right to pray in school so those people are bat**** insane conspiracy theorist ...
Click to expand...

If a religious teacher instructs his/her pupils to pray to god, you don't see a problem with that ?

Assume it was in a church sponsored school.


If you don't have a problem with that, what if we weren't talking about the Christian god ?
 
Rich2018 said:
1.) If a religious teacher instructs his/her pupils to pray to god, you don't see a problem with that ?

Assume it was in a church sponsored school.


If you don't have a problem with that, what if we weren't talking about the Christian god ?
Click to expand...

what? LMAO hows does your question relate to my statement in anyway what so ever? you might as well ask me if i think priest assaulting children is ok, that has just as much to do with my statement also

here maybe read it again slower:

"nobody real wants to take away the right to pray in school so those people are bat**** insane conspiracy theorist ."

let me know, thanks!
 
AGENT J said:
what? LMAO hows does your question relate to my statement in anyway what so ever? you might as well ask me if i think priest assaulting children is ok, that has just as much to do with my statement also

here maybe read it again slower:

"nobody real wants to take away the right to pray in school so those people are bat**** insane conspiracy theorist ."

let me know, thanks!
Click to expand...


Because you said:

"2.) nobody real wants to take away the right to pray in school so those people are bat**** insane conspiracy theorist"


And the retort is "hell yes they do and for good reason"

YouTube


Prayer should not be required for anyone at a public school.
 
Rich2018 said:
Because you said:

1.) nobody real wants to take away the right to pray in school so those people are bat**** insane conspiracy theorist[/i]"
2.) And the retort is "hell yes they do and for good reason"
3.) Prayer should not be required for anyone at a public school.
Click to expand...

1.) correct i said that
2.) no they dont and nothing you stated is about what i said in any fashion what country are you from??? LMAO
3.) i agree 100% BUT see this is where you post complete fails and makes no sense and goes in to conspiracy mode LMAO what does right to pray have to do with "Prayer should not be required for anyone at a public school"

I again suggest you read my post slower because you arent making any sense what so ever. What eve nuttiness you are babbling about has nothing to do with what i factually said
 
I don't believe the constitution makes this a Christian nation. Obviously, I wish it were.... but sadly it is not.
 
Magdalene said:
I don't believe the constitution makes this a Christian nation. Obviously, I wish it were.... but sadly it is not.
Click to expand...

OK.

What would constitute a Christian nation?

Please be very specific.

Not trying to trap you w/anything, I'd just like your opinion.
 
Tanngrisnir said:
OK.

What would constitute a Christian nation?

Please be very specific.

Not trying to trap you w/anything, I'd just like your opinion.
Click to expand...
KJ Bible believing people. Who follow God's laws and plans for us. :)

(let the bashing begin)
 
Magdalene said:
I don't believe the constitution makes this a Christian nation. Obviously, I wish it were.... but sadly it is not.
Click to expand...

Why should the country be a Christian nation? Do, you want a Christian equivalent of Iran, Saudi, and Pakistan and turn the clock back on equal rights more than 500 years?

What religious right do you want that you do not have? What problem would be solved by having a state religion and laws based on religious belief? Which Christian sect gets to have its relgious dogma enforced as secualr because they do not all agree.
 
AGENT J said:
1.) correct i said that
2.) no they dont and nothing you stated is about what i said in any fashion what country are you from??? LMAO
3.) i agree 100% BUT see this is where you post complete fails and makes no sense and goes in to conspiracy mode LMAO what does right to pray have to do with "Prayer should not be required for anyone at a public school"

I again suggest you read my post slower because you arent making any sense what so ever. What eve nuttiness you are babbling about has nothing to do with what i factually said
Click to expand...

1. But that's not true since lots of people and organized groups want to stop prayer in school as I showed you.

2. The good reason is to stop the indoctrination of children and to separate church from state

3. People have a right to expect schools to respect the Constitution and if individual teachers want to spread their religious message, they should do so in their own time and away from public property.
If you agree with this, then I apologise for arguing against you.
 
Lisa said:
Why should the country be a Christian nation? Do, you want a Christian equivalent of Iran, Saudi, and Pakistan and turn the clock back on equal rights more than 500 years?

What religious right do you want that you do not have? What problem would be solved by having a state religion and laws based on religious belief? Which Christian sect gets to have its relgious dogma enforced as secualr because they do not all agree.
Click to expand...

Tada! And here it goes
 
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