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Thread: Pay attention please, Ken Starr is an actual expert on impeachment

  1. #61
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    Re: Pay attention please, Ken Starr is an actual expert on impeachment

    Quote Originally Posted by Jay59 View Post
    It would look a whole lot better if you had not had a Representative resign in protest over the impeachment.

    You man the one from a Republican district that would lose his seat if he didn't defect?

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    Re: Pay attention please, Ken Starr is an actual expert on impeachment

    Quote Originally Posted by GDViking View Post
    You man the one from a Republican district that would lose his seat if he didn't defect?
    As may be. You cannot claim it was bipartisan impeachment but there was bipartisan opposition.

  3. #63
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    Re: Pay attention please, Ken Starr is an actual expert on impeachment

    Quote Originally Posted by Mycroft View Post
    What part of "high crimes and misdemeanors" do you...and Nancy...not understand?

    Look. Nancy and her Lawfare buddies can trot out all the political-based nonsense they want. All that does is make them look like idiots if they actually push this impeachment thing.

    This will not end well for Nancy & Co.


    You are the one failing to understand the terminology of grounds for impeachment in the Constitution. The terminology was based on English parliamentary practice. At the time of the Constitutional Convention the phrase "high Crimes and Misdemeanors" had been in use for over 400 years in impeachment proceedings in English Parliament. In fact, Alexander Hamilton wrote in The Federalist that Great Britain had served as "the model from which [impeachment] has been borrowed.”

    Characteristically, impeachment was used in individual cases for offenses, as perceived by Parliament, against the system of government. The charges, variously denominated "treason," "high treason," "misdemeanors," "malversations," and high Crimes and Misdemeanors," thus included allegations of misconduct. You see, Mycroft, an impeachable offense need not be a crime. Which, by the way, has been said in many threads in this forum. You must have read such posting, but have failed to comprehend or just ignore them and bluster on.

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-sr...rgatedoc_2.htm

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    Re: Pay attention please, Ken Starr is an actual expert on impeachment

    Quote Originally Posted by chuckiechan View Post
    What is happening is Pelosi is looking for polling data after the holidays. There is no way in God’s green earth would she push such a loser unless her back is to the wall. This is purely a political stunt pushed by her left wing. She knows in 2020 the Senate will not change hands, Trump will win*,and the House may or may not change hands**. Secondly the debate audience was dismal, (meaning people are tuning out the messengers***).

    All she can do is follow the left wings scorched earth method of politics and hope the idea of justice and fair play has left America for good, and the far left really is on to something.

    * the D’s have no candidates except Biden.
    ** internal polling of swing districts shows them trending red, but it’s early.
    *** Pelosi is concerned about Bloomberg stealing the spotlight then going home.


    What in your post has to do with my saying “Impeachment does not have to be for a crime”, as you quoted? Please clarify.

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    Re: Pay attention please, Ken Starr is an actual expert on impeachment

    Quote Originally Posted by Glitch View Post
    Technically, impeachment does require a crime. As in "treason, bribery, or other high crimes and misdemeanors." All of which are crimes. It is one of the things that makes the Articles of Impeachment passed by the House unconstitutional. They cannot impeach a President except for the criminal conditions mentioned specifically within the US Constitution, and "obstruction of congress" is not "treason, bribery, or other high crimes and misdemeanors," therefore it is unconstitutional.


    No actual crime is required. It is not a criminal trial. Even if an article of impeachment was for a crime, it would not be tried as a criminal procedure. Please see my post #63.

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    Re: Pay attention please, Ken Starr is an actual expert on impeachment

    Quote Originally Posted by Glitch View Post
    Obstruction of Congress is truly a ridiculous charge, particularly since it isn't even a crime....
    I'm fairly sure than Contempt of Congress is criminal behavior

    Contempt of Congress - Wikipedia

    It is possible for Sen. McConnell to effectively undo the damage caused by the Democrats with this unconstitutional impeachment....
    The hearings and vote to impeach Trump were absolutely constitutional.


    ...if he refuses to hold a trial and does not schedule any of the Articles of Impeachment for vote in the Senate then at the end of the 116th Session of Congress (January 3, 2021) the Articles of Impeachment passed by the House vanish into oblivion, like every other piece of legislation passed by the House and not voted on by the Senate. It would be as if the House vote never happened. Assuming Demcrats take control of the House in the 117th Session of Congress, they could resubmit and vote again on the Articles of Impeachment. However, if Republican take back control of the House next November, then the impeachment of Trump never happened.
    You talk of "unconstitutional", the Constitution states that the Senate ", Article I, Section 3 says, “The Senate shall have the sole power to try all Impeachments.”

    If McConnell schedules either of the Articles of Impeachment for a vote in the Senate then it validates the House impeachment, regardless whether the Senate convicts or acquits. But if there is no vote in the Senate before the session ends, then there is no impeachment.

    The Senate cannot refuse to hold a trial.

    The Senate rules say they must.

    McConnell probably has the votes to acquit Trump but he doesn't have te votes to change the Senates own rules.

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    Re: Pay attention please, Ken Starr is an actual expert on impeachment

    Quote Originally Posted by Rich2018 View Post
    I'm fairly sure than Contempt of Congress is criminal behavior
    It isn't. To be a crime it must appear under Title 18 of the US Code. Furthermore, the Article of Impeachment says "Obstruction of Congress" not "Contempt of Congress." Or are you incapable of reading?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rich2018 View Post
    The hearings and vote to impeach Trump were absolutely constitutional.
    Wrong yet again. Impeachment is specifically for "treason, bribery, or other high crimes and misdemeanors." Obstruction of Congress is none of those, making the Article of Impeachment illegal and unconstitutional.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rich2018 View Post
    You talk of "unconstitutional", the Constitution states that the Senate ", Article I, Section 3 says, “The Senate shall have the sole power to try all Impeachments.”

    The Senate cannot refuse to hold a trial.

    The Senate rules say they must.

    McConnell probably has the votes to acquit Trump but he doesn't have te votes to change the Senates own rules.
    Of course they can completely ignore the House's Articles of Impeachment. It is the Majority Leader of the Senate that determines the Senate rules and schedules votes on the Senate floor. If Sen. McConnell chooses, he can simply ignore the Articles of Impeachment completely and never bring them to the floor of the Senate for a vote. That is within his authority as Majority Leader.

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    Re: Pay attention please, Ken Starr is an actual expert on impeachment

    Quote Originally Posted by Glitch View Post
    Obstruction of Congress is truly a ridiculous charge, particularly since it isn't even a crime. It demonstrates just how mentally unhinged the Democratic Party has become.

    It is possible for Sen. McConnell to effectively undo the damage caused by the Democrats with this unconstitutional impeachment. If he refuses to hold a trial and does not schedule any of the Articles of Impeachment for vote in the Senate then at the end of the 116th Session of Congress (January 3, 2021) the Articles of Impeachment passed by the House vanish into oblivion, like every other piece of legislation passed by the House and not voted on by the Senate. It would be as if the House vote never happened. Assuming Demcrats take control of the House in the 117th Session of Congress, they could resubmit and vote again on the Articles of Impeachment. However, if Republican take back control of the House next November, then the impeachment of Trump never happened.

    If McConnell schedules either of the Articles of Impeachment for a vote in the Senate then it validates the House impeachment, regardless whether the Senate convicts or acquits. But if there is no vote in the Senate before the session ends, then there is no impeachment.
    Did you feel the same about the Bill Clinton obstruction charge ?

    Fear not, the electorate will be impeaching Trump Nov 2020.
    And when you’re a star, they let you do it. You can do anything. Grab them by the p**sy. You can do anything." –Donald Trump

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    Re: Pay attention please, Ken Starr is an actual expert on impeachment

    Quote Originally Posted by Glitch View Post
    Of course we can do better, and then Democrats nominated the criminal Hillary.

    If you are swimming in an ocean with a man-eating shark and a beat-up raft happens to come along, you aren't going to pass it up to wait to be rescued by a yacht. Naturally the States would choose Trump over Hillary. If Charles Manson were running for President they would have elected him before Hillary, she is that offensive.

    I can't say I blame him one bit. Rep. Dingell was a POS traitor. In January 2003 Representatives Dingell, Thompson, and McDermott traveled to Iraq in order to give Saddam Hussein aid and comfort. He should have been arrested, tried, and shot for his crimes.

    Name a Democrat who can.

    Still believing in Hillary's lies I see. And you have wonder why people consider the Democrats to be mentally unhinged? Seriously?

    The modern day Republican Party consists primarily of former registered Democrats. Including Trump.
    Yet Hilldog received 3 million more votes, that one really chaps Trumps rump.
    And when you’re a star, they let you do it. You can do anything. Grab them by the p**sy. You can do anything." –Donald Trump

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    Re: Pay attention please, Ken Starr is an actual expert on impeachment

    Quote Originally Posted by Glitch View Post
    It isn't. To be a crime it must appear under Title 18 of the US Code. Furthermore, the Article of Impeachment says "Obstruction of Congress" not "Contempt of Congress." Or are you incapable of reading?

    Then why would the sergeant at arms be at liberty to arrest you if you're found in Contempt of Congress ?

    "...the procedure for holding a person in contempt involves only the chamber concerned. Following a contempt citation, the person cited is arrested by the Sergeant-at-Arms for the House or Senate, brought to the floor of the chamber, held to answer charges by the presiding officer, and then subjected to punishment as the chamber may dictate (usually imprisonment for punishment...)"


    Imprisonment for a non criminal offense ?



    The opening line of the link I gave you reads:

    "Contempt of Congress or obstruction of Congress is the act of obstructing the work of the United States Congress or one of its committees. Historically, the bribery of a U.S. Senator or U.S. Representative was considered contempt of Congress. In modern times, contempt of Congress has generally applied to the refusal to comply with a subpoena issued by a Congressional committee..."

    So Contempt or Obstruction appear to be the same thing and historically included bribery which is definitely a criminal offense.

    To answer your rather aggressive reply "are you incapable of reading?"
    Sounds like someone is a little upset that their favorite criminal has been impeached.


    Contempt of Congress - Wikipedia




    Wrong yet again. Impeachment is specifically for "treason, bribery, or other high crimes and misdemeanors." Obstruction of Congress is none of those, making the Article of Impeachment illegal and unconstitutional.
    Do you ever take time to read? Or to answer your own question, are you incapable of reading?

    I said the hearings and vote to impeach were absolutely constitutional - because they were.

    Obstruction of Congress and the Abuse of Power articles are covered by "high crimes and misdemeanors". Many Republicans think a crime has to be committed in order to secure an impeachment, it does not.

    So to throw your aggressive tone back at you "wrong yet again"

    Of course they can completely ignore the House's Articles of Impeachment. It is the Majority Leader of the Senate that determines the Senate rules and schedules votes on the Senate floor. If Sen. McConnell chooses, he can simply ignore the Articles of Impeachment completely and never bring them to the floor of the Senate for a vote. That is within his authority as Majority Leader.
    I looked into this and no, he cannot refuse to hold a trial. Though what constitutes a "trial" specifically a fair trial is open to debate.


    IMO, McConnell is exhibiting disgusting prejudice and should be excused from his position. It's like the foreman of a jury discussing a case with the accused in a criminal trial.

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