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Electoral College Members Can Defy Voters’ Wishes, Court Rules

American said:
It's in the Constitution, therefore by definition it's not cheating. Your emotional leftwing argument is void.
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No it is not. There is nothing in Constitution about how States must choose the electorates.
 
Somerville said:
This NYTimes article is from August of this year. While reading more about the case, I found that only 15 of the states have laws requiring their electors to vote as the popular vote.
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There are actually 29 States, plus DC, with laws regarding faithless electors.

  • Alabama;
  • Alaska;
  • California;
  • Colorado;
  • Connecticut;
  • Delaware;
  • District of Columbia;
  • Florida;
  • Hawaii;
  • Maine;
  • Massachusetts;
  • Minnesota;
  • Michigan;
  • Mississippi;
  • Montana;
  • Nebraska;
  • Nevada;
  • New Mexico;
  • North Carolina;
  • Oklahoma;
  • Ohio;
  • Oregon;
  • South Carolina;
  • Tennessee;
  • Utah;
  • Vermont;
  • Virginia;
  • Washington;
  • Wisconsin; and
  • Wyoming.

Source: The Electoral College - Faithless Electors

No State may determine how an elector votes, but if the elector violates their pledge they may be fined by the State, and will most certainly lose their position as elector for the rest of their life. But that is the extent to which they may be punished for violating their pledge. And only at the State level, where all pledges by electors are made.
 
Glitch said:
There are actually 29 States, plus DC, with laws regarding faithless electors.

  • Alabama;
  • Alaska;
  • California;
  • Colorado;
  • Connecticut;
  • Delaware;
  • District of Columbia;
  • Florida;
  • Hawaii;
  • Maine;
  • Massachusetts;
  • Minnesota;
  • Michigan;
  • Mississippi;
  • Montana;
  • Nebraska;
  • Nevada;
  • New Mexico;
  • North Carolina;
  • Oklahoma;
  • Ohio;
  • Oregon;
  • South Carolina;
  • Tennessee;
  • Utah;
  • Vermont;
  • Virginia;
  • Washington;
  • Wisconsin; and
  • Wyoming.

Source: The Electoral College - Faithless Electors

No State may determine how an elector votes, but if the elector violates their pledge they may be fined by the State, and will most certainly lose their position as elector for the rest of their life. But that is the extent to which they may be punished for violating their pledge. And only at the State level, where all pledges by electors are made.
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And you call other countries "fascist" ?
 
Manc Skipper said:
Why bother voting at all if the electoral college can override you? Think of the expenses saved on polling machines and booths and taking time off work to vote and stuff!
Just let the college choose and accept your fate.
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Even though you don't have a dog in the fight I'll address your concern quickly. Just because they can do something, doesn't mean they will or usually do.
 
On a federal constitutional level this has always been the case.
 
American said:
Even though you don't have a dog in the fight I'll address your concern quickly. Just because they can do something, doesn't mean they will or usually do.
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Oh they will. Thats nothing compared to assurances.
 
Harshaw said:
No, they won't. They will pay attention to the large population centers only. There will be no reason to visit small, low-population states.
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Yep. The days of Iowa and Connecticut getting any attention will come to a screeching halt.
 
Somerville said:
This NYTimes article is from August of this year. While reading more about the case, I found that only 15 of the states have laws requiring their electors to vote as the popular vote. This goes back to the days of the founding of the nation when the Founders, all members of the educated elite class, thought that choosing electors of the same class could prevent the hoi-polloi from choosing some disreputable riff-raff as president.



If you can't read the NYTimes article, try this link -- Colorado’s presidential electors don’t have to vote for candidate who wins the state, federal appeals court rules

The Denver Post, Oct 16, 2019 -- Colorado seeks “urgent” decision from Supreme Court on faithless electors

IF the Supreme Court refuses Colorado's appeal or IF the Supreme Court takes the case and rules that the "original intent" of the Founders allowed those chosen as electors during a presidential election to 1) Vote as that individual wants to vote and/or 2) State legislatures in choosing the electors for their state ensure that said individuals chosen promise to vote as the legislature demands regardless of the popular vote, America will be a republic in which a limited number of citizens have the privilege of choosing a president.
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The point of this is what exactly? We've known this already. However, I will mention that I find it ironic that Trump was against the Electoral College until it worked in his favor...
 
Jason Warfield said:
The point of this is what exactly? We've known this already. However, I will mention that I find it ironic that Trump was against the Electoral College until it worked in his favor...
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Trump was also a registered Democrat, a candidate for President with the Reform Party, and a member of at least 5 other political parties since 1980. Currently he is pretending to be a Republican. Who knows what he will be next week.
 
Somerville said:
This NYTimes article is from August of this year. While reading more about the case, I found that only 15 of the states have laws requiring their electors to vote as the popular vote. This goes back to the days of the founding of the nation when the Founders, all members of the educated elite class, thought that choosing electors of the same class could prevent the hoi-polloi from choosing some disreputable riff-raff as president.



If you can't read the NYTimes article, try this link -- Colorado’s presidential electors don’t have to vote for candidate who wins the state, federal appeals court rules

The Denver Post, Oct 16, 2019 -- Colorado seeks “urgent” decision from Supreme Court on faithless electors

IF the Supreme Court refuses Colorado's appeal or IF the Supreme Court takes the case and rules that the "original intent" of the Founders allowed those chosen as electors during a presidential election to 1) Vote as that individual wants to vote and/or 2) State legislatures in choosing the electors for their state ensure that said individuals chosen promise to vote as the legislature demands regardless of the popular vote, America will be a republic in which a limited number of citizens have the privilege of choosing a president.
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I don't think you even read your own article -

"Neither the U.S. Constitution nor federal law requires electors to vote according to the results of the popular vote in their states. However, 28 states have laws binding electors’ votes to the winner of the popular vote and some of those, like Colorado, include punishing “faithless electors” with fines and even prosecution. It’s those laws that are being called into question by this lawsuit."

As a Coloradan, and a political activist, the Denver Post article is fairly accurate. Two basic principles need to be understood.

1. Faithless electors have nothing to do with the popular vote
2. The popular vote and the electoral college are not directly affiliated

There is an exeption to 2 above - 28 states have enacted laws within their borders to require that states electoral college votes to go for the national popular vote. At times this process will undermine/overturn the will of the people in that particular state. (scenario - state X is red, the vote in that state goes red, the electors in that state vote for the R, the national popular vote goes blue, state X electoral votes go to the D candidate because the popular vote overrides the will of state X voters) this scenario could also be reversed - blue for red, R for D

So Colorado had faithless electors in 2016, but did not have the national popular vote requirement for the electors. Colorado's electoral college law is new, and will only see its first action in 2020, where the electoral votes in Colorado will go for the candidate who wins the national popular vote. Electors don't really matter in Colorado anymore, because the electoral votes will go the same way the national popular vote for president goes.

In other words come November 2020, when the TV pundits are waiting for Colorado's election results, don't listen. Wait for the national popular vote total and add Colorado's 9 votes to that candidates tally.

One way to look at this, the will of the people of Colorado has been overridden by the will of the people in the United States. Yes, states rights have been trampled in Colorado. By the legislature of Colorado.
 
Nuber said:
There is an exeption to 2 above - 28 states have enacted laws within their borders to require that states electoral college votes to go for the national popular vote. At times this process will undermine/overturn the will of the people in that particular state. (scenario - state X is red, the vote in that state goes red, the electors in that state vote for the R, the national popular vote goes blue, state X electoral votes go to the D candidate because the popular vote overrides the will of state X voters) this scenario could also be reversed - blue for red, R for D
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You were doing great until you got to this part. You correctly pointed out that the Electoral College has no direct affiliation with the popular vote, and then you referenced some bizarre imaginary "national popular vote" that doesn't exist.

Forty-eight of the fifty States determine which electors their State will use based upon the popular vote in that given State. If a candidate wins 50%+1 of the popular vote, then all of the State's electors will be pledged to that candidate. Only two States, Maine and Nebraska, split their electors based upon the popular vote.

There is no such thing as a "national popular vote." There is only the accumulation of each State's popular vote, and it only makes a difference in that particular State when determining electors. Nationally the popular vote in each State is completely meaningless, as has been repeatedly demonstrated.

State electors pledge to vote a particular way, depending on the outcome of the State election. Nobody cares about the accumulated totals of the popular votes in each State because they are only used to determine which electors will be chosen and have no meaning beyond that.

If electors are selected by the State and then fail to keep their pledge they can be fined and they will no longer be allowed to serve as an elector ever again. That includes electors who violate their pledge by waiting for the results of some imaginary "national popular vote" that doesn't exist. They vote according to how their State determined they should vote, or cease to be electors because they have no honor. It is that simple.
 
Glitch said:
All elections are State elections. Your lack of education is showing, yet again.
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I would say your personal bias is showing. The "national popular vote" is simply the total votes cast in the country and by foreign-resident Americans. It IS NOT a legal status of votes cast, it is
simply counting all of them.
 
Somerville said:
I would say your personal bias is showing. The "national popular vote" is simply the total votes cast in the country and by foreign-resident Americans. It IS NOT a legal status of votes cast, it is
simply counting all of them.
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The "national popular vote" is an imaginary contrivance by those who seek to illegally violate the Electoral College, namely the anti-American leftist freaks.
 
Glitch said:
You were doing great until you got to this part. You correctly pointed out that the Electoral College has no direct affiliation with the popular vote, and then you referenced some bizarre imaginary "national popular vote" that doesn't exist.

Forty-eight of the fifty States determine which electors their State will use based upon the popular vote in that given State. If a candidate wins 50%+1 of the popular vote, then all of the State's electors will be pledged to that candidate. Only two States, Maine and Nebraska, split their electors based upon the popular vote.

There is no such thing as a "national popular vote." There is only the accumulation of each State's popular vote, and it only makes a difference in that particular State when determining electors. Nationally the popular vote in each State is completely meaningless, as has been repeatedly demonstrated.

State electors pledge to vote a particular way, depending on the outcome of the State election. Nobody cares about the accumulated totals of the popular votes in each State because they are only used to determine which electors will be chosen and have no meaning beyond that.

If electors are selected by the State and then fail to keep their pledge they can be fined and they will no longer be allowed to serve as an elector ever again. That includes electors who violate their pledge by waiting for the results of some imaginary "national popular vote" that doesn't exist. They vote according to how their State determined they should vote, or cease to be electors because they have no honor. It is that simple.
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It would seem that you did not read the links in the thread. According to the Denver Post article (see the OP), which is where I got the 28 state number, there are states that exist who are giving their electoral college votes to the national popular vote. Please read up. Colorado is one of those states under a new law passed this year.

I am in no way arguing the traditional national popular vote argument. I am opposed to any national popular vote for president, but the state I live in gave up their electoral college votes to the popular vote. It is theoretically possible in Colorado to have the state vote one way, and their electors go a different way according to the national popular vote.
 
Crosscheck said:
That is the problem when you have less than a dozen electors who are unelected and unaccountable decide for the whole state of Colorado.
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The parties in Colorado legally decide to choose a elector.

Each Colorado political party nominates delegates to its national convention during the state party conventions. During these assemblies, the parties also nominate their Electoral College electors and it's been working just fine since 1876.

So, what exactly are you afraid of?
 
Nuber said:
It would seem that you did not read the links in the thread. According to the Denver Post article (see the OP), which is where I got the 28 state number, there are states that exist who are giving their electoral college votes to the national popular vote. Please read up. Colorado is one of those states under a new law passed this year.

I am in no way arguing the traditional national popular vote argument. I am opposed to any national popular vote for president, but the state I live in gave up their electoral college votes to the popular vote. It is theoretically possible in Colorado to have the state vote one way, and their electors go a different way according to the national popular vote.
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There are actually 29 States, plus DC, with laws pertaining to faithless electors. Any elector that does not vote according to their pledge should be fined and lose their position as elector for the rest of their lives. They are honorless scum.
 
Glitch said:
The "national popular vote" is an imaginary contrivance by those who seek to illegally violate the Electoral College, namely the anti-American leftist freaks.
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Only in the minds of the 'conservatives' is the "national popular vote" an imaginary contrivance.

Of course all the Socialist, Lib-Dims, Democraps, radical leftwing, Nazi, Marixist radicals are totally delusional and unable to understand the complexities of the real world which include numbers showing that approximately 2.7 million more Americans voted for "Crooked Hillary" instead of the true American patriot.
 
RetiredUSN said:
The parties in Colorado legally decide to choose a elector.

Each Colorado political party nominates delegates to its national convention during the state party conventions. During these assemblies, the parties also nominate their Electoral College electors and it's been working just fine since 1876.

So, what exactly are you afraid of?
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So what is the purpose of these dozen electors? If the Republicans win the majority of the state's votes then the Republican candidate wins the state's electoral votes. If the Democrats win then their candidate wins the electoral votes.

That is pretty straight forward.
 
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