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Thread: Why actually prosecute this case before the wrong jury, when a better one is outside Washington

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    Why actually prosecute this case before the wrong jury, when a better one is outside Washington

    Must the House provide an affirmative prosecution of the case after having passed the impeachment indictments and after having physically provided the articles to the senate and selecting the Managers? Once the President is impeached and the articles sent to the Senate, can they effectively walk away from the matter without even notifying the senate in advance of Nolle prosequi by just not showing up to prosecute? Let the Senate figure out whether and how to run its faux trial without prosecutors in attendance. The senate can debate and pontificate all it wants. But can the Senate formally acquit Trump of impeachment artical without an adversarial trail which cannot happen without those House managers in attendance to argue the case?

    Then the House has put the case in the public record, without actually taking the decision out of the voters hands. Its members are actually taking the case away from this poisoned well of overtly biased jurors to a broader jury pool with all the testimony, all the evidence that they gathered unmuddied by the charade of sycophancy awarded the President's legal team. . An added benefit is that that Senators Sanders, Warren etc are not stalled from the campaign trail by this pathetic excuse of a trial.

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    Re: Why actually prosecute this case before the wrong jury, when a better one is outside Washington

    Quote Originally Posted by btthegreat View Post
    Must the House provide an affirmative prosecution of the case after having passed the impeachment indictments and after having physically provided the articles to the senate and selecting the Managers? Once the President is impeached and the articles sent to the Senate, can they effectively walk away from the matter without even notifying the senate in advance of Nolle prosequi by just not showing up to prosecute? Let the Senate figure out whether and how to run its faux trial without prosecutors in attendance. The senate can debate and pontificate all it wants. But can the Senate formally acquit Trump of impeachment artical without an adversarial trail which cannot happen without those House managers in attendance to argue the case?

    Then the House has put the case in the public record, without actually taking the decision out of the voters hands. Its members are actually taking the case away from this poisoned well of overtly biased jurors to a broader jury pool with all the testimony, all the evidence that they gathered unmuddied by the charade of sycophancy awarded the President's legal team. . An added benefit is that that Senators Sanders, Warren etc are not stalled from the campaign trail by this pathetic excuse of a trial.
    That actually is what happens. The Senate calls Schiff’s witnesses and cross examines them. I doubt Schiff will give up the transcriptions since he will call them privileged, and will protect witnesses from perjury if the testimony doesn’t match.

    I think Schiff’s plan is a house of cards.

    BUT, it is a road map for republicans if they take the house to use on democrats, particularly judges.
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    Re: Why actually prosecute this case before the wrong jury, when a better one is outside Washington

    Quote Originally Posted by btthegreat View Post
    Must the House provide an affirmative prosecution of the case after having passed the impeachment indictments and after having physically provided the articles to the senate and selecting the Managers? Once the President is impeached and the articles sent to the Senate, can they effectively walk away from the matter without even notifying the senate in advance of Nolle prosequi by just not showing up to prosecute? Let the Senate figure out whether and how to run its faux trial without prosecutors in attendance. The senate can debate and pontificate all it wants. But can the Senate formally acquit Trump of impeachment artical without an adversarial trail which cannot happen without those House managers in attendance to argue the case?

    Then the House has put the case in the public record, without actually taking the decision out of the voters hands. Its members are actually taking the case away from this poisoned well of overtly biased jurors to a broader jury pool with all the testimony, all the evidence that they gathered unmuddied by the charade of sycophancy awarded the President's legal team. . An added benefit is that that Senators Sanders, Warren etc are not stalled from the campaign trail by this pathetic excuse of a trial.
    Once the Articles for Impeachment are voted on and passed by the House and sent to the Senate it is out of their hands. Once the Senate receives the Articles for Impeachment they MUST hold a trial as per the Constitution and vote for either to remove the president or not to remove the president. If they vote not to remove the President then he keeps his job as President.

    Of course, the House could impeach him all over again should they find other Constitutional abuses or criminal activity that the President engaged in. Perhaps that's why Pelosi wanted the inquiry to narrowly focus on just the Ukraine scandal.
    Last edited by Moot; 10-28-19 at 05:48 PM.
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    Re: Why actually prosecute this case before the wrong jury, when a better one is outside Washington

    Quote Originally Posted by btthegreat View Post
    Must the House provide an affirmative prosecution of the case after having passed the impeachment indictments and after having physically provided the articles to the senate and selecting the Managers? Once the President is impeached and the articles sent to the Senate, can they effectively walk away from the matter without even notifying the senate in advance of Nolle prosequi by just not showing up to prosecute? Let the Senate figure out whether and how to run its faux trial without prosecutors in attendance. The senate can debate and pontificate all it wants. But can the Senate formally acquit Trump of impeachment artical without an adversarial trail which cannot happen without those House managers in attendance to argue the case?

    Then the House has put the case in the public record, without actually taking the decision out of the voters hands. Its members are actually taking the case away from this poisoned well of overtly biased jurors to a broader jury pool with all the testimony, all the evidence that they gathered unmuddied by the charade of sycophancy awarded the President's legal team. . An added benefit is that that Senators Sanders, Warren etc are not stalled from the campaign trail by this pathetic excuse of a trial.
    The Senate could do whatever they wanted to. It would be irrelevant if the Democrats boycotted the trial.

    What happens if no prosecutor shows up for a trial? Case is dismissed with prejudice against being refiled.

    Nice try at finding your own view of what corruption the Democrats in the House should try next.

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    Re: Why actually prosecute this case before the wrong jury, when a better one is outside Washington

    Quote Originally Posted by chuckiechan View Post
    That actually is what happens. The Senate calls Schiff’s witnesses and cross examines them. I doubt Schiff will give up the transcriptions since he will call them privileged, and will protect witnesses from perjury if the testimony doesn’t match. I think Schiff’s plan is a house of cards.

    BUT, it is a road map for republicans if they take the house to use on democrats, particularly judges.
    I think the only transcripts he might
    have refused to provide from the closed session would involve the whistleblower to protect his identity but he did not testify so there is no transcript.

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    Re: Why actually prosecute this case before the wrong jury, when a better one is outside Washington

    Quote Originally Posted by joko104 View Post
    The Senate could do whatever they wanted to. It would be irrelevant if the Democrats boycotted the trial.

    What happens if no prosecutor shows up for a trial? Case is dismissed with prejudice against being refiled.

    Nice try at finding your own view of what corruption the Democrats in the House should try next.
    Constitutionally, the Senate cannot do whatever it wants. It must hold a trial and vote on all articles of impeachment brought before it.

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    Re: Why actually prosecute this case before the wrong jury, when a better one is outside Washington

    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    Once the Articles for Impeachment are voted on and passed by the House and sent to the Senate it is out of their hands. Once the Senate receives the Articles for Impeachment they MUST hold a trial as per the Constitution and vote for either to remove the president or not to remove the president. If they vote not to remove the President then he keeps his job as President.

    Of course, the House could impeach him all over again should they find other Constitutional abuses or criminal activity that the President engaged in. Perhaps that's why Pelosi wanted the inquiry to narrowly focus on just the Ukraine scandal.
    A trial presupposes two adversarial parties and the Senate rules dictate who they are. One is not in attendance. Now what?

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    Re: Why actually prosecute this case before the wrong jury, when a better one is outside Washington

    Quote Originally Posted by lwf View Post
    Constitutionally, the Senate cannot do whatever it wants. It must hold a trial and vote on all articles of impeachment brought before it.
    There's a suggestion that the Senate could pass a vote to dismiss all charges/articles without holding a formal trial. IDK if that's actually the case.

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    Re: Why actually prosecute this case before the wrong jury, when a better one is outside Washington

    Quote Originally Posted by Rich2018 View Post
    There's a suggestion that the Senate could pass a vote to dismiss all charges/articles without holding a formal trial. IDK if that's actually the case.
    I don't think that's possible from my understanding of the impeachment process. This would be tantamount to refusing to consider articles of impeachment. If they don't want to remove the president, they can vote so.

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    Re: Why actually prosecute this case before the wrong jury, when a better one is outside Washington

    Quote Originally Posted by lwf View Post
    I don't think that's possible from my understanding of the impeachment process. This would be tantamount to refusing to consider articles of impeachment. If they don't want to remove the president, they can vote so.
    Well it's more tanamount to a judge dismissing the case without hearing it.

    I read that a simple majority was enough to dismiss the case, if that's true then the first challenge the Democrats face (assuming the House can vote to impeach without any trouble) is to get FOUR GOP senators to vote to hear the case.

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