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Thread: 25th Amendment - proof it needs to be exercised

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    Re: 25th Amendment - proof it needs to be exercised

    Quote Originally Posted by Cordelier View Post
    I realize that... I was approaching the problem from a game theory perspective - frequently, what inhibits both sides from coming to a mutually-equitable solution is that both sides don't have access to the same information which can lead to one side overplaying it's hand in arbitration. With the German system, both sides have access to the same information, and so it can more easily generate a win-win result, rather than a winner-take-all, zero-sum result. Plus, having shareholder and labor representatives working together on the board, they come to the table with a proven history of working together, which can form a basis of trust.
    Indeed

    There are no blind bids like the Scottish house buying process

    Many unions feel distrust for management because of ignorance...they might feel the wage offer is too low because the company wants a slightly fatter profit margin.

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    Re: 25th Amendment - proof it needs to be exercised

    Quote Originally Posted by Rich2018 View Post
    Indeed

    There are no blind bids like the Scottish house buying process

    Many unions feel distrust for management because of ignorance...they might feel the wage offer is too low because the company wants a slightly fatter profit margin.
    Exactly... and that's why the German model is superior - labor brings a long-term perspective to the table (workers want to still have jobs in 20 years) and the shareholders bring short-term perspective (the company isn't going to be here in 20 years if it doesn't continue to generate quarterly profits)... both sides can sit down at the same table, with the same information, and work out a plan that satisfies both.
    "He who knows, does not speak. He who speaks, does not know." --- Lao Tzu

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    Re: 25th Amendment - proof it needs to be exercised

    Quote Originally Posted by Cordelier View Post
    Exactly... and that's why the German model is superior - labor brings a long-term perspective to the table (workers want to still have jobs in 20 years) and the shareholders bring short-term perspective (the company isn't going to be here in 20 years if it doesn't continue to generate quarterly profits)... both sides can sit down at the same table, with the same information, and work out a plan that satisfies both.
    The Germans have a very stable proportional-representation democratic model too.

    In their Federal Republic, they also separate the offices oh head of state and head of government.

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    Re: 25th Amendment - proof it needs to be exercised

    Quote Originally Posted by Cordelier View Post
    You raise some valid points, Jet... but isn't it a fact that Union membership as a percentage of the workforce had been declining since the mid-1950's? By the time President Carter came along, private-sector unions were a shadow of what they were 20 years before - so it could be argued that the deregulatory policies of his Administration were just an acknowledgement of reality. If you want someone to blame, look at George Meany and the AFL-CIO merger. The competition between the AFL and the CIO for Union members was so intense during the post-war 40's and early 50's, that they both had to keep at the top of their game and get the best deal possible for their members. Once they merged, I think they got fat, lazy and complacent. You started seeing corruption become more rampant. I think the cause of labor's downfall wasn't so much the Democrats becoming more "free market" as it was the curse of bigness - the same problem as the trucking and airlines that grew fat, lazy and inefficient because of the regulations Carter struck down.
    Sorry to leave you hangin for so long.

    The Meany merger came long after the Teamsters for one became an international union taking on Canada in 1903 when the international was formed. The AFL was formed as a result of the 19th century Knights of labor when it was thought that the way to deal with the robber barons was to form a national umbrella and Meany merged the new CIO in 1935 as labor really started to rise with the minors and the UAW. The railroads had been organized for some time as well.

    At labor's peak in the US there were never more than 30% of the working people under contract. The big difference that lasted until Carter was that unions had respect and people did not cross picket lines. As a result, the Teamsters ourselves under the national master freight agreement very rarely engaged in strikes at all. Under deregulation the larger barns split up into little satellite barns and as predatory pricing became the rage, those barns just slowly disappeared

    Where were the Democrats "who support labor" when all that was taking place? Where were the Dems when Scott Walker was pulling public sector unions apart? Nowhere, they just watched, and hence what we have today.

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    Re: 25th Amendment - proof it needs to be exercised

    Quote Originally Posted by Cordelier View Post
    Exactly... and that's why the German model is superior - labor brings a long-term perspective to the table
    BMW AUDI Mercedes Porsche have very long term perspectives because owners want to earn money over the long term with their very expensive assets. They hire management to make that possible. Workers have no long term interest in the company since they can quit and work elsewhere, they just want high pay in the short term so they must be ignored for that reason and because they have no management training or experience. 1+1=2

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    Re: 25th Amendment - proof it needs to be exercised

    We have no need to look into the 25th to remove Trump from office, he'll be impeached. We don't have to look any further than a few days ago when Trump threatened to hold back 250 million dollars in military aid to Ukraine that was voted on by Congress and should have been conveyed in August. There was a deadline of October 30th for that transfer. But Trump made a phone call to Ukraine president Volodymyr Zelensky on July 31st and wanted him to cooperate with Rudy Giuliani in his quest to nail Joe Biden's son or if he didn't then he wouldn't get that 250 million bucks.

    Of course it's not a violation of the 25th Amendment but my proffer is definitely against the law, even for someone that's not president of the United States. It would qualify easily as "high crimes and misdemeanors". Perjury of oath, abuse of authority, bribery, intimidation, misuse of assets, failure to supervise, dereliction of duty, unbecoming conduct, refusal to obey a lawful order -- take your choice or a combination of the above, it's all against the law.

    Hey, no big deal, right?




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    Re: 25th Amendment - proof it needs to be exercised

    Quote Originally Posted by HumblePi View Post
    We have no need to look into the 25th to remove Trump from office, he'll be impeached.
    you mean he'll be reelected so we wont get stuck with the Lib Nazi Green New Deal Depression!!

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    Re: 25th Amendment - proof it needs to be exercised

    Quote Originally Posted by James972 View Post
    you mean he'll be reelected so we wont get stuck with the Lib Nazi Green New Deal Depression!!




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    Re: 25th Amendment - proof it needs to be exercised

    Quote Originally Posted by justabubba View Post
    here is a thread to post statements and/or actions of the president which should be considered indicative the 25th Amendment needs to be exercised

    first up, tRump insisting that the US economy "is very strong":


    followed by tRump next insisting that the Fed rate should be reduced from 2.25% to 1.25% aided by quantitative easing to boost the econmy






    a strong economy does not require such a boost. so, is the economy as strong as he insists? is this indication enough that tRump's mental facilities are so diminished that the 25th Amendment needs to be exercised?

    as you find other indications that the 25th Amendment should be considered, please post the rationale here

    the text of said amendment follows [emphasis added by bubba]:



    Adam Schitff-head: "Here is proof we need to impeach Trump! He said the economy is doing great, and we all know it hasn't been great since Obama was in office. Impeach! Now!"

    And the dummass democrat cultists respond, "Amen, Herr Lord and Master Schitff-head!"

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    Re: 25th Amendment - proof it needs to be exercised

    Quote Originally Posted by marke View Post
    Adam Schitff-head: "Here is proof we need to impeach Trump! He said the economy is doing great, and we all know it hasn't been great since Obama was in office. Impeach! Now!"

    And the dummass democrat cultists respond, "Amen, Herr Lord and Master Schitff-head!"
    Most economists and financial analysts are predicting that the economy will slow significantly next year and that there is a risk of a recession in 2020. The primary drivers of a sudden downward turn are the predictable end of the current economic cycle, and debt, both long-term and annual. This graphic, recently release by the Congressional Budget Office, shows how America is nearing the 100% GDP-to-debt ratio that tends to signal that a country is becoming so mired in debt that it could cease to grow, and could in fact fail if GDP slows significantly for a number of years:



    America’s future is further brought into question by the phenomenal increase in the annual Federal budget under Trump. The country is now looking at annual budget deficits of $1 Trillion dollars, or about 5% of GDP. However, GDP is expected to slow, as discussed above, so this amount of spending could in fact prove catastrophic for America. Any American who expects that his Social Security and Medicare payments are secure is fooling himself. You can already pretty much write off Medicaid, SNAP (food stamps) and WIC (nutrition program for poor women, children and infants). (Of course these dire predictions assume that Trump and the Republicans remain in power in Washington.




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