Page 1 of 84 1231151 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 831

Thread: Our Timidity is Killing the Constitution

  1. #1
    Eco**Social Marketeer

    Join Date
    Mar 2019
    Location
    PNW
    Last Seen
    Today @ 09:26 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Other
    Posts
    3,747

    Our Timidity is Killing the Constitution

    The United States Constitution has been operational for 230 years. It has been the inspiration for hundreds of other constitutions the world over, and helped spread the concept of democratic representation since its inception. Yet, it is under its worst assault since the Civil War. That is not hyperbole. Our timidity in defending the principles and structure of the Constitution is allowing it to be killed by unscrupulous operators.

    Consider: The current Senate Majority Leader refused for over a year to allow the Senate to execute its responsibility of "the Advice and Consent of the Senate" over a Supreme Court Justice, as called for in Article II, Section 2, cl. 2; Congress is given the authority "to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States" (Article I, Section 8, cl 1.), yet the President is usurping that authority to pay for a wall Congress will not appropriate funds for; the current occupant of the White House has committed repeated felonies while in office (and to get there), yet the House has yet to initiate a hearing about that (Article I, Section 3, cl. 5); previous Congresses and Presidents have created agencies to administer laws duly enacted through the Constitutional process, yet the President has appointed opponents of those agencies to head them and dismantle the legal apparatuses they are charged with enforcing (Article I, Section I, cl. 1; Article II, Section 2, cl 2.); the President, abetted by corrupt Attorneys General, has prohibited current - and even former - federal officers from appearing before Congress and inhibited their investigatory functions under the Constitution (Article I, Section 8, cl. 18); and the President has failed to abide by his oath to "take Care that the Laws be faithfully executed, and shall Commission all the Officers of the United States." having left a full third of the inferior offices created by Congress vacant. (Article II, Section 3.)

    In each of those instances, the people have not, as a body, risen up to raise holy hell about these malfeasances in office (there are so many more I can cite). As citizens and denizens of the United States it is our responsibility to hold our representatives accountable - and not just through elections. It is not just a right, but an obligation to " peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances." After all, the Constitution was ordained and established by "We the People of the United States" and if we don't take responsibility to ensure that it is faithfully executed, who will?
    Mission: "to defend and preserve the individual rights and liberties guaranteed to every person in this country by the Constitution and laws of the United States." ACLU. Why isn't every American a member?

  2. #2
    Sage
    HumblePi's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2018
    Last Seen
    Today @ 09:39 PM
    Lean
    Centrist
    Posts
    16,753

    Re: Our Timidity is Killing the Constitution

    Quote Originally Posted by NWRatCon View Post
    The United States Constitution has been operational for 230 years. It has been the inspiration for hundreds of other constitutions the world over, and helped spread the concept of democratic representation since its inception. Yet, it is under its worst assault since the Civil War. That is not hyperbole. Our timidity in defending the principles and structure of the Constitution is allowing it to be killed by unscrupulous operators.

    Consider: The current Senate Majority Leader refused for over a year to allow the Senate to execute its responsibility of "the Advice and Consent of the Senate" over a Supreme Court Justice, as called for in Article II, Section 2, cl. 2; Congress is given the authority "to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States" (Article I, Section 8, cl 1.), yet the President is usurping that authority to pay for a wall Congress will not appropriate funds for; the current occupant of the White House has committed repeated felonies while in office (and to get there), yet the House has yet to initiate a hearing about that (Article I, Section 3, cl. 5); previous Congresses and Presidents have created agencies to administer laws duly enacted through the Constitutional process, yet the President has appointed opponents of those agencies to head them and dismantle the legal apparatuses they are charged with enforcing (Article I, Section I, cl. 1; Article II, Section 2, cl 2.); the President, abetted by corrupt Attorneys General, has prohibited current - and even former - federal officers from appearing before Congress and inhibited their investigatory functions under the Constitution (Article I, Section 8, cl. 18); and the President has failed to abide by his oath to "take Care that the Laws be faithfully executed, and shall Commission all the Officers of the United States." having left a full third of the inferior offices created by Congress vacant. (Article II, Section 3.)

    In each of those instances, the people have not, as a body, risen up to raise holy hell about these malfeasances in office (there are so many more I can cite). As citizens and denizens of the United States it is our responsibility to hold our representatives accountable - and not just through elections. It is not just a right, but an obligation to " peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances." After all, the Constitution was ordained and established by "We the People of the United States" and if we don't take responsibility to ensure that it is faithfully executed, who will?
    And even with the Mueller interview with Congress behind us and the dire warning Mueller gave the US about ongoing Russian interference, Mitch McConnell refuses to allow any new election-security legislation. I'm telling you, they're all hooked up with the Russians.

    The democrats are making a huge mistake not beginning the process of an impeachment inquiry. They wasted time issuing subpoenas then wasted time issuing contempt citations, which are meaningless anyway. Now those cases are collecting mold and mildew in the court dockets while time is passing by. The only thing that forced Richard Nixon to turn over his Watergate tapes was the initiation of a formal impeachment inquiry and that's the only thing that will force these reluctant witnesses to testify before Congress. I've emailed and tweeted to members of Congress that have been reluctant to commit to proceeding with an impeachment inquiry to let them know how I feel about it. If enough people pressure their own congressman, they'll start listening.







    Quote Originally Posted by EMNofSeattle View Post
    There are virtually no Child molestations in the Catholic Church.
    Quote Originally Posted by EMNofSeattle View Post
    Mock someone with a handicap? Sure. Why are handicapped people different then anyone else?

  3. #3
    Guru
    WillyPete's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Last Seen
    Today @ 07:08 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    3,400

    Re: Our Timidity is Killing the Constitution

    Quote Originally Posted by HumblePi View Post
    And even with the Mueller interview with Congress behind us and the dire warning Mueller gave the US about ongoing Russian interference, Mitch McConnell refuses to allow any new election-security legislation. I'm telling you, they're all hooked up with the Russians.

    The democrats are making a huge mistake not beginning the process of an impeachment inquiry. They wasted time issuing subpoenas then wasted time issuing contempt citations, which are meaningless anyway. Now those cases are collecting mold and mildew in the court dockets while time is passing by. The only thing that forced Richard Nixon to turn over his Watergate tapes was the initiation of a formal impeachment inquiry and that's the only thing that will force these reluctant witnesses to testify before Congress. I've emailed and tweeted to members of Congress that have been reluctant to commit to proceeding with an impeachment inquiry to let them know how I feel about it. If enough people pressure their own congressman, they'll start listening.
    Please, help me to understand what we can hope to get from an impeachment inquiry.

    The result of the impeachment itself is a forgone conclusion, which is a pretty different situation than Nixon's.

    Trump's people know that as well. Why would he not just stonewall and play the victim until the Senate vote?

    Seem like the best we can hope for would be to reveal publicly more of Trump's shady dealings, but they will resist this bitterly.

    These revelations would have to be pretty nasty indeed, in order to overcome the downside of simultaneously handing Dem voters a defeat and re-energizing Trump's base right in the middle of election season.
    Ask about my German oranges!

  4. #4
    ThunderCougarFalconBird
    roughdraft274's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Louisiana
    Last Seen
    Today @ 06:52 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Other
    Posts
    14,768
    Blog Entries
    1

    Re: Our Timidity is Killing the Constitution

    Quote Originally Posted by WillyPete View Post
    Please, help me to understand what we can hope to get from an impeachment inquiry.

    The result of the impeachment itself is a forgone conclusion, which is a pretty different situation than Nixon's.

    Trump's people know that as well. Why would he not just stonewall and play the victim until the Senate vote?

    Seem like the best we can hope for would be to reveal publicly more of Trump's shady dealings, but they will resist this bitterly.

    These revelations would have to be pretty nasty indeed, in order to overcome the downside of simultaneously handing Dem voters a defeat and re-energizing Trump's base right in the middle of election season.
    Actually, impeachment of Nixon was expected to fail until the very end when the tapes came out.

    We should impeach and use it as an investigation in to every wrong doing by every single member of the administration. Subpoena anything and everything. If Republicans don't want to impeach the felon currently in the whitehouse, that's their problem. But we should let all the facts come out.
    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    uh that is so small as to be stupid. Do you want registration? given less than 3% of criminals get their guns from private sales, its pretty much a waste of resources
    **Thirty Minutes Later**
    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    you are confused. I never denied that many criminals get guns in private sales.

  5. #5
    Sage
    HumblePi's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2018
    Last Seen
    Today @ 09:39 PM
    Lean
    Centrist
    Posts
    16,753

    Re: Our Timidity is Killing the Constitution

    Quote Originally Posted by WillyPete View Post
    Please, help me to understand what we can hope to get from an impeachment inquiry.

    The result of the impeachment itself is a forgone conclusion, which is a pretty different situation than Nixon's.

    Trump's people know that as well. Why would he not just stonewall and play the victim until the Senate vote?

    Seem like the best we can hope for would be to reveal publicly more of Trump's shady dealings, but they will resist this bitterly.

    These revelations would have to be pretty nasty indeed, in order to overcome the downside of simultaneously handing Dem voters a defeat and re-energizing Trump's base right in the middle of election season.
    Here's the #1 thing we can expect from an impeachment inquiry. The stonewalling of documents and witnesses will end. Courts will be pressured to expedite lawsuits brought by Congress in objections to the refusals of people like Hope Hicks and Don McGahn to testify. A court will judge in favor of Congress and their claim of 'executive privilege' is no longer valid because it is now an open investigation, they will HAVE to testify, no more choice about it. And documents requested will HAVE to be provided to Congress.

    Open hearings of the testimonies of both McGahn and Hicks would be extremely damaging to Trump. Legally, they will no longer be able to refuse to testify. Unless of course they want to go to jail.







    Quote Originally Posted by EMNofSeattle View Post
    There are virtually no Child molestations in the Catholic Church.
    Quote Originally Posted by EMNofSeattle View Post
    Mock someone with a handicap? Sure. Why are handicapped people different then anyone else?

  6. #6
    Sage

    Join Date
    Jun 2016
    Last Seen
    Today @ 05:14 PM
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    6,666

    Re: Our Timidity is Killing the Constitution

    Quote Originally Posted by NWRatCon View Post
    The United States Constitution has been operational for 230 years. It has been the inspiration for hundreds of other constitutions the world over, and helped spread the concept of democratic representation since its inception. Yet, it is under its worst assault since the Civil War. That is not hyperbole. Our timidity in defending the principles and structure of the Constitution is allowing it to be killed by unscrupulous operators.

    Consider: The current Senate Majority Leader refused for over a year to allow the Senate to execute its responsibility of "the Advice and Consent of the Senate" over a Supreme Court Justice, as called for in Article II, Section 2, cl. 2; Congress is given the authority "to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States" (Article I, Section 8, cl 1.), yet the President is usurping that authority to pay for a wall Congress will not appropriate funds for; the current occupant of the White House has committed repeated felonies while in office (and to get there), yet the House has yet to initiate a hearing about that (Article I, Section 3, cl. 5); previous Congresses and Presidents have created agencies to administer laws duly enacted through the Constitutional process, yet the President has appointed opponents of those agencies to head them and dismantle the legal apparatuses they are charged with enforcing (Article I, Section I, cl. 1; Article II, Section 2, cl 2.); the President, abetted by corrupt Attorneys General, has prohibited current - and even former - federal officers from appearing before Congress and inhibited their investigatory functions under the Constitution (Article I, Section 8, cl. 18); and the President has failed to abide by his oath to "take Care that the Laws be faithfully executed, and shall Commission all the Officers of the United States." having left a full third of the inferior offices created by Congress vacant. (Article II, Section 3.)

    In each of those instances, the people have not, as a body, risen up to raise holy hell about these malfeasances in office (there are so many more I can cite). As citizens and denizens of the United States it is our responsibility to hold our representatives accountable - and not just through elections. It is not just a right, but an obligation to " peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances." After all, the Constitution was ordained and established by "We the People of the United States" and if we don't take responsibility to ensure that it is faithfully executed, who will?


    Sadly, unless "constituents" (whatever that means) lights fire under the ass of those supposedly elected to represent them, those cowardly representatives, as is consistently shown, will not. The Dems are a bunch of pusillanimous pussies bullied by the bully master Himself, Trump, who 100% bullies the Reps. Sad, but true.

  7. #7
    Guru
    WillyPete's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Last Seen
    Today @ 07:08 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    3,400

    Re: Our Timidity is Killing the Constitution

    Quote Originally Posted by roughdraft274 View Post
    Actually, impeachment of Nixon was expected to fail until the very end when the tapes came out.

    We should impeach and use it as an investigation in to every wrong doing by every single member of the administration. Subpoena anything and everything. If Republicans don't want to impeach the felon currently in the whitehouse, that's their problem. But we should let all the facts come out.
    Quote Originally Posted by HumblePi View Post
    Here's the #1 thing we can expect from an impeachment inquiry. The stonewalling of documents and witnesses will end. Courts will be pressured to expedite lawsuits brought by Congress in objections to the refusals of people like Hope Hicks and Don McGahn to testify. A court will judge in favor of Congress and their claim of 'executive privilege' is no longer valid because it is now an open investigation, they will HAVE to testify, no more choice about it. And documents requested will HAVE to be provided to Congress.

    Open hearings of the testimonies of both McGahn and Hicks would be extremely damaging to Trump. Legally, they will no longer be able to refuse to testify. Unless of course they want to go to jail.
    Ok, thank you both.

    I guess I get it, I just don't see Trump resigning under any circumstance, and I lack the imagination to think up the evidence that would sway the Senate or Trump supporters.

    Edited to add:

    At the end of the process, if we end up with a pile of good evidence, and the senate fails to convict, and we lose the election because we're being painted to the public like a bunch of finger wagging hysterics and forgot to nominate a worthwhile candidate, will that have been energy well spent?
    Last edited by WillyPete; 07-25-19 at 03:46 PM.
    Ask about my German oranges!

  8. #8
    Sage

    Rexedgar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2017
    Last Seen
    Today @ 08:02 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    21,680

    Re: Our Timidity is Killing the Constitution

    There are only so many rounds in the chamber......


    ......and every round expended, so far has only emboldened the target.

    My advice is to let this latest mis-fire slip into the past and concentrate on NOV20.
    Everyone appreciates your honesty, until you are honest with them. Then you are an asshole. - George Carlin
    I know, everybody funny, now you funny too. -George Thorogood

  9. #9
    ThunderCougarFalconBird
    roughdraft274's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Louisiana
    Last Seen
    Today @ 06:52 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Other
    Posts
    14,768
    Blog Entries
    1

    Re: Our Timidity is Killing the Constitution

    Quote Originally Posted by WillyPete View Post
    Ok, thank you both.

    I guess I get it, I just don't see Trump resigning under any circumstance, and I lack the imagination to think up the evidence that would sway the Senate or Trump supporters.

    Edited to add:

    At the end of the process, if we end up with a pile of good evidence, and the senate fails to convict, and we lose the election because we're being painted to the public like a bunch of finger wagging hysterics and forgot to nominate a worthwhile candidate, will that have been energy well spent?
    There's no evidence that impeachment will cause the dems to lose the election. Clinton was more popular and the impeachment proceedings were for very different reasons. The republicans did amazing in the house and the senate while impeaching Clinton. The idea that the impeachment hurt them is simply false. They just didn't get enough momentum to overcome Clintons campaigning ability and popularity.
    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    uh that is so small as to be stupid. Do you want registration? given less than 3% of criminals get their guns from private sales, its pretty much a waste of resources
    **Thirty Minutes Later**
    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    you are confused. I never denied that many criminals get guns in private sales.

  10. #10
    Eco**Social Marketeer

    Join Date
    Mar 2019
    Location
    PNW
    Last Seen
    Today @ 09:26 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Other
    Posts
    3,747

    Re: Our Timidity is Killing the Constitution

    I'm by nature a very cautious person. I consider and weigh all the options. I tend to be meticulous in planning (to a fault, ask my wife) before I embark on any endeavor. But, there are principles at stake here - big, important ones. I do worry that the partisan divide is so entrenched at this point that it won't or can't be overcome, but how far do we have to go before enough really is enough. This is not a matter of norms, but laws, standards, and constitutional requirements. If not now, when?

    Donald Trump is the most flagrant liar to occupy the office; the most corrupt and obvious criminal. He ****s on the Constitution and the citizenry daily. A hearing would bring that out. As Kennedy once said, "We do these things not because they are easy, but because they are hard." If the constitutional order is not worth fighting for, what is?

    Yes, I know that it may not be "political", but it is right, and isn't that more important? But, I think it would inspire so much more good citizenry - and likely more voting and other participation - that should overcome the complacency for larceny and malfeasance - and maybe even actually vote enough of the bums out of office to actually make change. We arrived at the tipping point and I've tipped. I'm mad as hell and I'm not going to take it any more. We shouldn't either.
    Mission: "to defend and preserve the individual rights and liberties guaranteed to every person in this country by the Constitution and laws of the United States." ACLU. Why isn't every American a member?

Page 1 of 84 1231151 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •