• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

How have we been wrong for so long and no one has said anything.

R

RealityNow

Banned
DP Veteran
Joined
Jan 22, 2019
Messages
17,149
Reaction score
6,827
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
Article II of the Constitution:

The Electors shall meet in their respective States, and vote by Ballot for two Persons, of whom one at least shall not be an Inhabitant of the same State with themselves. And they shall make a List of all the Persons voted for, and of the Number of Votes for each; which List they shall sign and certify, and transmit sealed to the Seat of the Government of the United States, directed to the President of the Senate.
The President of the Senate shall, in the Presence of the Senate and House of Representatives, open all the Certificates, and the Votes shall then be counted.

The Person having the greatest Number of Votes shall be the President, if such Number be a Majority of the whole Number of Electors appointed; and if there be more than one who have such Majority, and have an equal Number of Votes, then the House of Representatives shall immediately chuse by Ballot one of them for President; and if no Person have a Majority, then from the five highest on the List the said House shall in like Manner chuse the President.

But in chusing the President, the Votes shall be taken by States, the Representation from each State having one Vote; A quorum for this Purpose shall consist of a Member or Members from two thirds of the States, and a Majority of all the States shall be necessary to a Choice.

In every Case, after the Choice of the President, the Person having the greatest Number of Votes of the Electors shall be the Vice President. But if there should remain two or more who have equal Votes, the Senate shall chuse from them by Ballot the Vice President.
Click to expand...

If this were held true and done as prescribed... then the President would not have any say in who is Vice President!!!!! It will be the voice of the people, who are represented through the voice of the Electors.... as the person having the second highest number of Electoral Votes would be elected as Vice President.

It this were to be does as prescribed, we'd not have a system where the President and Vice President are generally of the same party. Then, we may get to become and have a system where we have less of a Adversarial Partisan Maddening within our Governance Systems.... We would also stand firm on the principle that the President Presides and Make Decisions based on "Advise and Consent" as was originally laid out in Article II.

SECTION 4
The President, Vice President and all civil Officers of the United States, shall be removed from Office on Impeachment for, and Conviction of, Treason, Bribery, or other high Crimes and Misdemeanors.

America was not of design to give "any person" the powers of a Dictator!!!

It is time for American people to stand up and "abolish the idea and concept" that was invoked of "The Unitary Executive Theory".
thus to become firm in "RESPECT for and of the "Divisions of Power" as being "True Divisions" of Power in our Governing Branches...
Doing so, preclude any man from "acting in the capacity" as if to be and have the powers of a Dictator, King, Tyrants or Authoritarian Master over the Nation, Its Government and Its People.
Click to expand...
 
Last edited:
RealityNow said:
Article II of the Constitution:



If this were held true and done as prescribed... then the President would not have any say in who is Vice President!!!!! It will be the voice of the people, who are represented through the voice of the Electors.... as the person having the second highest number of Electoral Votes would be elected as Vice President.

It this were to be does as prescribed, we'd not have a system where the President and Vice President are generally of the same party. Then, we may get to become and have a system where we have less of a Adversarial Partisan Maddening within our Governance Systems.... We would also stand firm on the principle that the President Presides and Make Decisions based on "Advise and Consent" as was originally laid out in Article II.

SECTION 4
The President, Vice President and all civil Officers of the United States, shall be removed from Office on Impeachment for, and Conviction of, Treason, Bribery, or other high Crimes and Misdemeanors.

America was not of design to give "any person" the powers of a Dictator!!!
Click to expand...



It used to be done that way. That led to presidents and vice-presidents who hated each other. So a cooperative system was adopted. I think it was the 12th Amendment which formalized the change. The electors may still not technically have to choose the one the president wants -- I don't know if this was formalized by the various states. But of course they have at least a tacit agreement to do so.
 
RealityNow said:
Article II of the Constitution:



If this were held true and done as prescribed... then the President would not have any say in who is Vice President!!!!! It will be the voice of the people, who are represented through the voice of the Electors.... as the person having the second highest number of Electoral Votes would be elected as Vice President.

It this were to be does as prescribed, we'd not have a system where the President and Vice President are generally of the same party. Then, we may get to become and have a system where we have less of a Adversarial Partisan Maddening within our Governance Systems.... We would also stand firm on the principle that the President Presides and Make Decisions based on "Advise and Consent" as was originally laid out in Article II.

SECTION 4
The President, Vice President and all civil Officers of the United States, shall be removed from Office on Impeachment for, and Conviction of, Treason, Bribery, or other high Crimes and Misdemeanors.

America was not of design to give "any person" the powers of a Dictator!!!
Click to expand...

Dude. The 12th Amendment, 1804:

The Electors shall meet in their respective states, and vote by ballot for President and Vice-President, one of whom, at least, shall not be an inhabitant of the same state with themselves; they shall name in their ballots the person voted for as President, and in distinct ballots the person voted for as Vice-President, and they shall make distinct lists of all persons voted for as President, and of all persons voted for as Vice-President and of the number of votes for each, which lists they shall sign and certify, and transmit sealed to the seat of the government of the United States, directed to the President of the Senate;

The President of the Senate shall, in the presence of the Senate and House of Representatives, open all the certificates and the votes shall then be counted;

The person having the greatest Number of votes for President, shall be the President, if such number be a majority of the whole number of Electors appointed; and if no person have such majority, then from the persons having the highest numbers not exceeding three on the list of those voted for as President, the House of Representatives shall choose immediately, by ballot, the President. But in choosing the President, the votes shall be taken by states, the representation from each state having one vote; a quorum for this purpose shall consist of a member or members from two-thirds of the states, and a majority of all the states shall be necessary to a choice. And if the House of Representatives shall not choose a President whenever the right of choice shall devolve upon them, before the fourth day of March next following, then the Vice-President shall act as President, as in the case of the death or other constitutional disability of the President.

The person having the greatest number of votes as Vice-President, shall be the Vice-President, if such number be a majority of the whole number of Electors appointed, and if no person have a majority, then from the two highest numbers on the list, the Senate shall choose the Vice-President; a quorum for the purpose shall consist of two-thirds of the whole number of Senators, and a majority of the whole number shall be necessary to a choice. But no person constitutionally ineligible to the office of President shall be eligible to that of Vice-President of the United States.
Click to expand...

Also, the Electors were never intended to be the "voice of the people," so if you're urging fealty to the original Article II, you also have to accept that it's up to the state legislatures to decide how the Electors are chosen, not the populace. Which, unlike the mechanism you're citing from Article II, is still the case.
 
Now, that society is far more educated than any generation that has previously existed, and there is more knowledge available that supersedes the "folklore spread" that has been a process of misleading people to accept a "bastardized system" and the concept having been promoted in ways that led people not to think and not to review and not to question the long game of creations of precedence, that delude and confound the people into thinking its beyond them and too complex for them to digest or handle...

We now live in the Age of Information... and MUCH is being uncovered, and people are learning "how to read beyond the contorted manipulations" that have long be pushed and promoted in papers by those who seek to use the pundity of playing title games of status, as if to contort and shape the minds of people to accept their bastardized interpretations".. That worked for the past 100's of years... when people were sparsely educated, and the wealth and well to do were the craft-makers of the many papers and documents that have been pushed and promoted as if its 'gospel"... Now... in the Age of Information... is also the age of "investigation" and "inquiry" and "discovery" that can and will reverse the madness that intentional aims and acts of bastardizations was engaged, and the plutocratic agenda that has been the driving force, wrapped in a system designed to promote 'Wealthy White Male Controlled White Nationalist Agenda of Wealthy White Male Dominance".... Now, that we know what it is... and what its intent has been and continues to be... then we are armed with the awareness that identifies and exposes to "all of us, as the average working and poor people of society" to now know what has been the driving force that has established nationwide "disenfranchisement", based on being Poor, Being Black,and Being White while being Being Also Poor...

It's Time to AWAKEN....
 
Harshaw said:
Dude. The 12th Amendment, 1804:



Also, the Electors were never intended to be the "voice of the people," so if you're urging fealty to the original Article II, you also have to accept that it's up to the state legislatures to decide how the Electors are chosen, not the populace. Which, unlike the mechanism you're citing from Article II, is still the case.
Click to expand...

Categorically speaking, we no longer need the system of "Electors".... it should have been abolished long ago. All Regions of America is now populated!!! And if we institute "Federal Campaign Financing" which has covenants, that any and all and 'every" candidate "MUST" campaign in "All Regions" of the nation and Regions of States, to gain the benefit of Federal Campaign Funds... and cannot in any ways, use any funds from any other source, nor can any group or organization campaign on behalf of any candidate using private funds. then we create a system where "any elected person" EARN'S their Elected Position!!! It means revamping the entire process of Campaigning. We are no longer the "ignorance filled uneducated society we were long ago" when the game plan of how "wealth and power" controlled and installed persons into elected office, by the game of wealth manipulations.
Today, just the fact of publicity of "how much money someone raised" become a factor of who leads... is a gross disrespect to the system of "one person, one vote"... because they are being led by "Plutocratic Puppet" cast in the arena as "Candidates". TV has played into the game and promoted it, because its means "Advertising Revenues" for the wealthy who control the Media and its Profit Making Agenda.
 
Last edited:
It would be funny to have a Trump/Clinton White House, lol.
 
RealityNow said:
Now, that society is far more educated than any generation that has previously existed, and there is more knowledge available that supersedes the "folklore spread" that has been a process of misleading people to accept a "bastardized system" and the concept having been promoted in ways that led people not to think and not to review and not to question the long game of creations of precedence, that delude and confound the people into thinking its beyond them and too complex for them to digest or handle...

We now live in the Age of Information... and MUCH is being uncovered, and people are learning "how to read beyond the contorted manipulations" that have long be pushed and promoted in papers by those who seek to use the pundity of playing title games of status, as if to contort and shape the minds of people to accept their bastardized interpretations".. That worked for the past 100's of years... when people were sparsely educated, and the wealth and well to do were the craft-makers of the many papers and documents that have been pushed and promoted as if its 'gospel"... Now... in the Age of Information... is also the age of "investigation" and "inquiry" and "discovery" that can and will reverse the madness that intentional aims and acts of bastardizations was engaged, and the plutocratic agenda that has been the driving force, wrapped in a system designed to promote 'Wealthy White Male Controlled White Nationalist Agenda of Wealthy White Male Dominance".... Now, that we know what it is... and what its intent has been and continues to be... then we are armed with the awareness that identifies and exposes to "all of us, as the average working and poor people of society" to now know what has been the driving force that has established nationwide "disenfranchisement", based on being Poor, Being Black,and Being White while being Being Also Poor...

It's Time to AWAKEN....
Click to expand...
With all that information, it is sad to see lies and delusions dominate so many.
 
Ikari said:
It would be funny to have a Trump/Clinton White House, lol.
Click to expand...

I was thinking the same thing. :lamo

Oh how much fun would it be to listen in to those conversations.
 
RealityNow said:
Categorically speaking, we no longer need the system of "Electors".... it should have been abolished long ago.
Click to expand...

You started this thread pretty much demanding that the original Article II be followed.
 
Also, US Senators should be selected by the State Legislatures, not by a popular vote, lol.
 
Amelia said:
It used to be done that way. That led to presidents and vice-presidents who hated each other. So a cooperative system was adopted. I think it was the 12th Amendment which formalized the change. The electors may still not technically have to choose the one the president wants -- I don't know if this was formalized by the various states. But of course they have at least a tacit agreement to do so.
Click to expand...

They should not have to per sey, like each other... they have to first "respect the office" and "respect the people" they represented" and the system of our Constitution Outlined Governance they are to uphold and follow the principles and ethics of doing so.

See if we contrast that with Corporations that now allow the CEO to be Chairman of the Board.... what we see is clone scripted crash of companies, by every means fro collusive "merger's and acquisitions" that is guaranteed to crash the company they are buying or claiming to merge with, and reducing the competitive benefit the citizens as consumers in this nation, have of options where the nature of competition, mandates that each competitor put forth their best efforts and best of products. When that competitor is removed... product quality diminishes, prices increase and the volume of what is presented is shrunk... and the consumer suffers to a greater degree.
Click to expand...

The duties that are for the President and the Duties of the Vice President must be 're-visited".... by the coming generations, and the abolition of the system of today, of Presidents choosing their Vice Presidents, must be abolished. The current model is nothing but Political Gamesmanship, by those running for office of the President, in how they choose Vice Presidents... and the whole process is a detriment to the general populations.

(I probably should post this type of thread on Facebook", to truly get people to talking and thinking, beyond being just caught up in media spin gaming, because this site does not have enough readership to truly expand this subject interactions to really get people thinking, and get thinking people to explore and investigate the points of commentary, or the review of the Article's of the Constitution, regarding our choose and those chosen by election process. People here in this site, do not share links to invite more people to engage in the discussions or generate and engage in debate). I share links to what I write... so that people can engage the same nature of discussion on other forums and social media.)
If one look at the number of participants in various thread categories, the numbers are very low, and if it is not a topic where people can play, "slap stick, bicker gaming" and "one liner, one up games, subject positions does not get very much involvement. There is no means that I know where this site can push subject matter into the broad streams of media... it seems just a small group of people considering our nations population, who spin within this portal... If this site had the readership of some of the "social media platforms" that had millions upon millions of users... then the subject matter could find means to be inspirational to people to seek out information in areas they previously have not, and to expound upon subject matter, as well as learn and discover what we have in common, as simply people, as Americans and even among those who have what appears to opposing political views. Because in the big picture. {PRINCIPLES} matter....
 
Last edited:
Harshaw said:
You started this thread pretty much demanding that the original Article II be followed.
Click to expand...

I would say.... to be reviewed and investigated... if we consider what of Articles, that have been bastardized, then we know some elements of it stands, where other elements of it must be revisited and even in some cases changed, omitted and re-structured.... it's a discussion that is worthy of engaging, not about... trying to make claim that the subject is to one dimensional closed ended.
 
RealityNow said:
I would say.... to be reviewed and investigated... if we consider what of Articles, that have been bastardized, then we know some elements of it stands, where other elements of it must be revisited and even in some cases changed, omitted and re-structured.... it's a discussion that is worthy of engaging, not about... trying to make claim that the subject is to one dimensional closed ended.
Click to expand...

:thinking
 
Sigh. The OP is simultaneously arguing that we're wrong for not electing presidents and vice presidents in the former very undemocratic way, and wrong for not being democratic in an ultra-modern information age way. Simultaneously mocking us for our alleged ignorance of Article II while exposing his ignorance of Amendment XXII.




/unsubscribed
 
RealityNow said:
Categorically speaking, we no longer need the system of "Electors".... it should have been abolished long ago. All Regions of America is now populated!!! And if we institute "Federal Campaign Financing" which has covenants, that any and all and 'every" candidate "MUST" campaign in "All Regions" of the nation and Regions of States, to gain the benefit of Federal Campaign Funds... and cannot in any ways, use any funds from any other source, nor can any group or organization campaign on behalf of any candidate using private funds. then we create a system where "any elected person" EARN'S their Elected Position!!! It means revamping the entire process of Campaigning. We are no longer the "ignorance filled uneducated society we were long ago" when the game plan of how "wealth and power" controlled and installed persons into elected office, by the game of wealth manipulations.
Today, just the fact of publicity of "how much money someone raised" become a factor of who leads... is a gross disrespect to the system of "one person, one vote"... because they are being led by "Plutocratic Puppet" cast in the arena as "Candidates". TV has played into the game and promoted it, because its means "Advertising Revenues" for the wealthy who control the Media and its Profit Making Agenda.
Click to expand...

Categorically speaking, we need the EC now more than ever. Without it three or 4 cities would elect the President and VP. Those states signing on to the popular vote are rendering their own citizens votes pointless.

Regarding federal financing. Again, do you want that? That would make an independent such as Trump an impossibility. As bad as you dislike Trump, you may not dislike the next independent as much. We've had two independents running in recent history. Both originally self funded rich people. One turned out to be a nut job. The other became president. IMO the system worked both times.
 
jimbo said:
Categorically speaking, we need the EC now more than ever. Without it three or 4 cities would elect the President and VP. Those states signing on to the popular vote are rendering their own citizens votes pointless.

Regarding federal financing. Again, do you want that? That would make an independent such as Trump an impossibility. As bad as you dislike Trump, you may not dislike the next independent as much. We've had two independents running in recent history. Both originally self funded rich people. One turned out to be a nut job. The other became president. IMO the system worked both times.
Click to expand...

Why do you call the Republican nominee an independant?
 
I'm at a loss to try and understand where the OP is attempting to take this thread ...
 
Grand Mal said:
Why do you call the Republican nominee an independant?
Click to expand...

Because when he announced he was. Regardless of what he claimed. IMO he still is. Never Trumpers line both sides of the aisle.
 
jimbo said:
Because when he announced he was. Regardless of what he claimed. IMO he still is. Never Trumpers line both sides of the aisle.
Click to expand...

Call him what you like but he ran as the Republican candidate. Thats quite different from running as an independant, against both a Republican and a Democrat.
 
jimbo said:
Categorically speaking, we need the EC now more than ever. Without it three or 4 cities would elect the President and VP. Those states signing on to the popular vote are rendering their own citizens votes pointless.

Regarding federal financing. Again, do you want that? That would make an independent such as Trump an impossibility. As bad as you dislike Trump, you may not dislike the next independent as much. We've had two independents running in recent history. Both originally self funded rich people. One turned out to be a nut job. The other became president. IMO the system worked both times.
Click to expand...

this is why I stated: "any and all and 'every" candidate "MUST" campaign in "All Regions" of the nation and Regions of States, to gain the benefit of Federal Campaign Funds..."

Already... no one has ever gone to "every city"... but with a mandate that they must go to all Regions, it will be those regions as well, that can and must put the pressure to the candidates to visit their particular locality when they are in the regions... "these people have a full 18 month's of campaigning" and if they can't make it function to visit as much of the nation as possible, then they basically will disqualify themselves to a relative degree, by neglecting people in various locations. That's something we as people can "fix"....
If we keep Electors, then we need to better educate them too.... to ensure that people are not being ignored by candidate only focusing on big population centers.
We can fix anything.... when we make conscience effort to try and engage ourselves to pursue doing so.
 
jimbo said:
Categorically speaking, we need the EC now more than ever. Without it three or 4 cities would elect the President and VP. Those states signing on to the popular vote are rendering their own citizens votes pointless.

Regarding federal financing. Again, do you want that? That would make an independent such as Trump an impossibility. As bad as you dislike Trump, you may not dislike the next independent as much. We've had two independents running in recent history. Both originally self funded rich people. One turned out to be a nut job. The other became president. IMO the system worked both times.
Click to expand...

No person running can use their own money, not can they use any contributions... they can "only use what is allotted to them via Federal Campaign Funding" Make the Penalty extremely stiff and firm, for any who tries to circumvent or engage to violate the process, including big fine and "mandatory" Jail Time, not less than 10 yrs !!!
 
RealityNow said:
Now, that society is far more educated than any generation that has previously existed,...

It's Time to AWAKEN....
Click to expand...
Time to awaken, and do what???

Order corrective amendments???

Reorder the charter system???

Do you have any directive samples to present for review, or are you suggesting that someone else generate the corrective legislation???

Can't you see the next step in the process?

You think all you have to do is yell and scream there is a problem, and somehow that is going to prompt the people who have the power, or know how, are going to then commence working on generating a solution to the problem you describe???

Wake up. You are the epitome of why there is a perceived prejudice against black people - you think complaining is the solution.
 
RealityNow said:
I probably should post this type of thread on Facebook", to truly get people to talking and thinking, beyond being just caught up in media spin gaming, because this site does not have enough readership to truly expand this subject interactions to really get people thinking, and get thinking people to explore and investigate the points of commentary, or the review of the Article's of the Constitution, regarding our choose and those chosen by election process.
Click to expand...
Truly amazing how keen you are to how it works!!!:lamo

Get it on, bro - make the Internet work for you.
 
RealityNow said:
No person running can use their own money, not can they use any contributions... they can "only use what is allotted to them via Federal Campaign Funding" Make the Penalty extremely stiff and firm, for any who tries to circumvent or engage to violate the process, including big fine and "mandatory" Jail Time, not less than 10 yrs !!!
Click to expand...
I'll bet Obama and AOC would appreciate this concept.

President Barack Obama’s 2008 campaign was fined $375,000 by the Federal Election Commission for campaign reporting violations — one of the largest fees ever levied against a presidential campaign, POLITICO has learned.

Obama 2008 campaign fined $375,000 - POLITICO
Click to expand...

New York. Rep Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez (D) and Saikat Chakrabarti, the progressive firebrand’s multimillionaire chief of staff, apparently violated campaign finance law by working to funnel nearly $1 million in contributions from political action committees Chakrabarti established to private companies that he also controlled, according to an explosive complaint filed Monday with the Federal Election Commission (FEC) and obtained by Fox News.

AOC Apparently Violated Campaign Finance Law | Climate Dispatch
Click to expand...

Freshman Rep. Ilhan Omar has been ordered to reimburse her campaign account about $3,500 and to pay a fine of $500 after an investigation found she illegally used campaign funds in 2016 and 2017, a report said Thursday.

Ilhan Omar fined for campaign finance violations
Click to expand...
 
RealityNow said:
No person running can use their own money, not can they use any contributions... they can "only use what is allotted to them via Federal Campaign Funding" Make the Penalty extremely stiff and firm, for any who tries to circumvent or engage to violate the process, including big fine and "mandatory" Jail Time, not less than 10 yrs !!!
Click to expand...

And who gets to decide who gets the money? And who gets to decide how it's spent? Can anyone just walk in, fill out an application, and pick up a check for the couple billion it takes to run a successful campaign?

Your plan is recipe for a two, or possibly one. party. A Trump or Perot would never happen.

Basically you're asking that the government take over what's working well at this point.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom