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Understanding_ The Constitution is to serve the promotion of the values set forth in The Preamble

Bullseye said:
(a): Which, again, conforms to YOUR ideas about who should be appointed or elected, and what THEY should do once in office. Your "[be discerning and knowledgeable and do it MY WAY" does match what you claim to be espousing.



(b): Not sure what you point is here.
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(a): "WHAT !!! are you talking about ??!!?? GeeZ..

(b): "Maybe"...even quite likely, because you don't want to be sure.... your choice.


A few terms that might or might not hold interest for you: your choice

(1): Civility in Government:

(2): Civil Society

(3): Human Rights

(4): American Democracy
((Common definitions of the terms democracy and republic often feature overlapping concerns, suggesting that many democracies function as republics, and many republics operate on democratic principles, as shown by these definitions from the Oxford English Dictionary:

Republic: "A state in which supreme power is held by the people and their elected representatives..."

Democracy: "A system of government by the whole population or all the eligible members of a state, typically through elected representatives.))
 
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RealityNow said:
(a): "WHAT !!! are you talking about ??!!?? GeeZ..

(b): "Maybe"...even quite likely, because you don't want to be sure.... your choice.


A few terms that might or might not hold interest for you: your choice

(1): Civility in Government:

(2): Civil Society

(3): Human Rights

(4): American Democracy
((Common definitions of the terms democracy and republic often feature overlapping concerns, suggesting that many democracies function as republics, and many republics operate on democratic principles, as shown by these definitions from the Oxford English Dictionary:

Republic: "A state in which supreme power is held by the people and their elected representatives..."

Democracy: "A system of government by the whole population or all the eligible members of a state, typically through elected representatives.))
Click to expand...
Again, it's all good and well to spout high sounding terminology. But you gotta walk the walk as well. I'm not seeing that from you.
 
There's an underlying fabric in the above posts. The warp is the dichotomy of whether the Constitution of the United States of America is to serve the people or whether the reverse shall prevail. It's a centuries-old conversation. The weft is composed of specific positions within ideologies. They attempt to use the Constitution as their raison d'etre. [Ed.: For those following this, note that the weft is composed of arguments of those who seek to have the constitution serve a group within 'the people'. Wheels within wheels, nu?] They are woven by both the political right and left -- by partisans. The pattern formed is one familiar to many. Memorized talking points and rejoinders fly back and forth freely.

Perhaps, though, we would do well to attend the sooth of an ancient philosopher and first define our terms.

Partisan, n. Seen by his fellows as a loyal patriot and by the opposition as an abject dupe.

There was a loyal partisan.
Who'd vote the solid row.
When he was told that they were crooks,
His instant response, 'So?'

Position, n. An ideological point on the political map. To take a position is to plant both feet firmly on an undefined location. The basic map coordinates are ego and the other one.

A politician, one fine day,
Said, with a lofty air:
'I'm standing on my principles.
I'm sure you'll find them fair.'

And then he turned and walked away.
I checked the floor with care;
Examined where he just had stood,
But there was nothing there.

A Modern Dictionary, Fragmentary Press, 2016, Chelm, IA
 
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So, how are we doing on the "insure domestic Tranquility" aspect?
 
Tangmo said:
So many civics teachers are bad enough slanting their teaching toward their right wing views. Many history teachers in the public schools can be just as bad, coloring the curriculum with their brown shirt views.

Yet looking back on it and only some years after our 6th grade teacher -- an old maid -- many of us recognized she was a Bircher which was of course way back when. Today that same teacher would be a Putin-Trump Rower.

After all this Putin-Trump And Rowers madness has passed we will need a new national reconstruction from coast to coast and border to border. A second national reconstruction under the Constitution of course, or at least what's left of it and that we can revise and reconstruct to meet the challenges going forward from the enemies of the USA both foreign and domestic.


11 heinous lies conservatives are teaching America's schoolchildren

The right has a new plan to capture the country's youth vote: Take over public school curriculums

If recent elections have taught us anything, it’s that young Americans have taken a decided turn to the left. Young voters delivered Obama the election: the under-44 set voted Obama and the over-45 set broke for Romney. The youngest voters, age 18-29, gave Obama a whopping 60 percent of their vote.

Now Republicans have a plan to try to recapture the youngest voters out there: Take over the curriculum in public schools, replace education with a bunch of conservative propaganda, and reap the benefits of having a new generation that can’t tell reality from right-wing fantasy.

How well this plan will work is debatable, but in the meantime, these shenanigans present the very real possibility that public school students will graduate without a proper education. To make it worse, many of these attempts to rewrite school curriculum are happening in Texas, which can set the textbook standards for the entire country by simply wielding its power as one of the biggest school textbook markets there is.

With that in mind, here’s a list of 11 lies your kid may be in danger of learning in school.

11 heinous lies conservatives are teaching America's schoolchildren | Salon.com


This is an excellent illustration that contradicts directly the Putin-Trump And Rowers campaign that "truth is not true."
Click to expand...

I especially like No 5: I can understand why a magazine like Salon would publish such an article, it's not like they are moderate in their political views and the author of the article Amanda Marcotte, she is about as far left as you can get before falling off the edge.

Now back to NO 5: Black people are the descendants of Ham and therefore cursed by God, Amanda had to dig really deep to find such a Christian view point on this. She would have been better off quoting Margret Sanger on the dehumanization of Blacks, oh, that's right Margret Sanger was a progressive.
 
Terryj said:
I especially like No 5: I can understand why a magazine like Salon would publish such an article, it's not like they are moderate in their political views and the author of the article Amanda Marcotte, she is about as far left as you can get before falling off the edge.

Now back to NO 5: Black people are the descendants of Ham and therefore cursed by God, Amanda had to dig really deep to find such a Christian view point on this. She would have been better off quoting Margret Sanger on the dehumanization of Blacks, oh, that's right Margret Sanger was a progressive.
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You guys keep Politifact busy yet that's why Politifact exists.

Ben Carson and Herman Cain have also got Politifact burning the midnight oil correcting the record.

Did Margaret Sanger believe African-Americans "should be eliminated"? | PolitiFact New Hampshire
 
Prof_Lunaphiles said:
So, how are we doing on the "insure domestic Tranquility" aspect?
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Not very well. For more than a century now the scandalous drug prohibition has required the police enforce illegitimate laws that make the cops become perceived as the enemy, turning brother against brother and neighbor against neighbor.

And our two party system has been shown to be a joke.
 
Thoreau72 said:
Not very well. For more than a century now the scandalous drug prohibition has required the police enforce illegitimate laws that make the cops become perceived as the enemy, turning brother against brother and neighbor against neighbor.

And our two party system has been shown to be a joke.
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You agree that we need to have a constitutional convention, then - don't you???

Those are some good examples of flaws that can only be corrected by a more sophisticated charter system - state and federal constitutions, and municipal charters.
 
joko104 said:
They did NOT want people from everyone in the world. They only wanted white people and black people for slaves.



The Democratic Party's stance - and moreso of most modern progressives - on every issue is exactly opposite from the country the founders wanted to establish.
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You are mistaken. Stop watching Fox News:

“I had always hoped that this land might become a safe and agreeable asylum to the virtuous and persecuted part of mankind, to whatever nation they might belong.”
George Washington

"Where the preamble declares, that coercion is a departure from the plan of the holy author of our religion, an amendment was proposed by inserting "Jesus Christ," so that it would read "A departure from the plan of Jesus Christ, the holy author of our religion;" the insertion was rejected by the great majority, in proof that they meant to comprehend, within the mantle of its protection, the Jew and the Gentile, the Christian and Mohammedan, the Hindoo and Infidel of every denomination."
-Thomas Jefferson, Autobiography, in reference to the Virginia Act for Religious Freedom

“The bosom of America is open to receive not only the Opulent and respected Stranger, but the oppressed and persecuted of all Nations and Religions; whom we shall welcome to a participation of all our rights and privileges…”
George Washington

"During almost fifteen centuries has the legal establishment of Christianity been on trial. What have been its fruits? More or less in all places, pride and indolence in the Clergy, ignorance and servility in the laity, in both, superstition, bigotry and persecution...In some instances they have been seen to erect a spiritual tyranny on the ruins of the Civil authority; in many instances they have been seen upholding the thrones of political tyranny: in no instance have they been seen the guardians of the liberties of the people. Rulers who wished to subvert the public liberty, may have found an established Clergy convenient auxiliaries. A just Government instituted to secure & perpetuate it needs them not. "
-James Madison

"Laws for the liberal education of youth, especially of the lower class of people, are so extremely wise and useful, that, to a humane and generous mind, no expense for this purpose would be thought extravagant.”
– John Adams, Thoughts on Government.

“The government of the United States is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion.”
– John Adams

“But how has it happened that millions of fables, tales, legends have been blended with both Jewish and Christian revelation that have made them the most bloody religion that ever existed?”
– John Adams, letter to FA Van der Kamp, December 27, 1816.
Click to expand...
 
ataraxia said:
You are mistaken. Stop watching Fox News:
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The problem though, is that the three-part model we know and trust is inadequate for the tremendously more diverse the society has actually advanced to. The system does not properly represent the diverse ideological perspectives of all of the relevant organizations of people.

Besides, it will never be fair until the diversity of people can claim that they took part in the founding, and not always be reverent to the system that was established exclusively by pig racist homophobic misoginist slave-owning cracker cave dwelling white men.

Sent from my Lenovo YT3-850F using Tapatalk
 
Prof_Lunaphiles said:
The problem though, is that the three-part model we know and trust is inadequate for the tremendously more diverse the society has actually advanced to. The system does not properly represent the diverse ideological perspectives of all of the relevant organizations of people.
Click to expand...

I am pretty confident it does. Who is it missing?

Besides, it will never be fair until the diversity of people can claim that they took part in the founding, and not always be reverent to the system that was established exclusively by pig racist homophobic misoginist slave-owning cracker cave dwelling white men.
Click to expand...

The system was established by Englishmen. I am not sure at what point all these other Irish, Polish, Italian, German, eastern European, and all sorts of other riff raff immigrants who came later started thinking they had anything to do with it just because their skin tone was generally the same.

Those of true English ancestry now in the US are a very small minority. The biggest background in the US is actually those of German background. Listen to what Benjamin Franklin had to say about them. He sounds like Donald Trump talking about Mexicans:

"Why should Pennsylvania, founded by the English, become a Colony of Aliens, who will shortly be so numerous as to Germanize us instead of our Anglifying them, and will never adopt our Language or Customs, any more than they can acquire our Complexion...

Those who come hither are generally of the most ignorant Stupid Sort of their own Nation…and as few of the English understand the German Language, and so cannot address them either from the Press or Pulpit, ’tis almost impossible to remove any prejudices they once entertain…Not being used to Liberty, they know not how to make a modest use of it…I remember when they modestly declined intermeddling in our Elections, but now they come in droves, and carry all before them, except in one or two Counties...In short unless the stream of their importation could be turned from this to other colonies, as you very judiciously propose, they will soon so out number us, that all the advantages we have will not in My Opinion be able to preserve our language, and even our Government will become precarious."
-Benjamin Franklin, speaking of the waves of new German immigrants pouring into Pennsylvania in the 18th century
Click to expand...

It's funny these Germans now think they are "one of us" with those English who originally created this nation, and are using skin tone as some kind of proxy. Where did they get the idea that they need to be reverent toward or have any sense of ownership of this system made by somebody else? LOL.

It seems to me if they can do it, anybody can.
 
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Prof_Lunaphiles said:
You agree that we need to have a constitutional convention, then - don't you???

Those are some good examples of flaws that can only be corrected by a more sophisticated charter system - state and federal constitutions, and municipal charters.
Click to expand...

I think a convention would be too dangerous.

That is, I think the current version is suitable, even while not perfect. I think the amendment process is sufficient to 'tune' the document.

The problems we have are from elected officials not obeying the spirit and letter of the document. The document is not at fault, the greedy leaders we elect, and mankind in general, have not governed in accordance with the spirit and letter of the document.
 
joko104 said:
The Democratic Party's stance - and moreso of most modern progressives - on every issue is exactly opposite from the country the founders wanted to establish.
Click to expand...

Very true! Open borders, free medical care for all illegals, and the Nazi Green New Deal Depression are the Democratic vision of America, the exact opposite of what our Founders envisioned!
 
Thoreau72 said:
The problems we have are from elected officials not obeying the spirit and letter of the document.
Click to expand...

Liberals openly say they are opposed to the letter of the Constitution and thusly are free to interpret it any way they please which his to say, socialist. Make sense??
 
James972 said:
Liberals openly say they are opposed to the letter of the Constitution and thusly are free to interpret it any way they please which his to say, socialist. Make sense??
Click to expand...

The constitution grants no power to issue fiat currency. Make sense?
 
James972 said:
Liberals openly say they are opposed to the letter of the Constitution and thusly are free to interpret it any way they please which his to say, socialist. Make sense??
Click to expand...

In the years I've been reading your posts here, very few of them have made sense James, this one included.

St. Paul noted that the spirit of the law gives life while the letter of the law gives death. Make sense?
 
Thoreau72 said:
In the years I've been reading your posts here, very few of them have made sense James, this one included.
Click to expand...

Of course if it did not make sense the liberal would not be so afraid to say why. What does the liberal learn from his fear???
 
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Thoreau72 said:
St. Paul noted that the spirit of the law gives life while the letter of the law gives death. Make sense?
Click to expand...

is the silly illiterate treasonous liberal saying that the letter of our Constitution is deadly?? Is the liberal afraid to explain why he thinks that?? What does the liberal learn from his fear??
 
Tangmo said:
So many civics teachers are bad enough slanting their teaching toward their right wing views. Many history teachers in the public schools can be just as bad, coloring the curriculum with their brown shirt views.

Yet looking back on it and only some years after our 6th grade teacher -- an old maid -- many of us recognized she was a Bircher which was of course way back when. Today that same teacher would be a Putin-Trump Rower.

After all this Putin-Trump And Rowers madness has passed we will need a new national reconstruction from coast to coast and border to border. A second national reconstruction under the Constitution of course, or at least what's left of it and that we can revise and reconstruct to meet the challenges going forward from the enemies of the USA both foreign and domestic.


11 heinous lies conservatives are teaching America's schoolchildren

The right has a new plan to capture the country's youth vote: Take over public school curriculums

If recent elections have taught us anything, it’s that young Americans have taken a decided turn to the left. Young voters delivered Obama the election: the under-44 set voted Obama and the over-45 set broke for Romney. The youngest voters, age 18-29, gave Obama a whopping 60 percent of their vote.

Now Republicans have a plan to try to recapture the youngest voters out there: Take over the curriculum in public schools, replace education with a bunch of conservative propaganda, and reap the benefits of having a new generation that can’t tell reality from right-wing fantasy.

How well this plan will work is debatable, but in the meantime, these shenanigans present the very real possibility that public school students will graduate without a proper education. To make it worse, many of these attempts to rewrite school curriculum are happening in Texas, which can set the textbook standards for the entire country by simply wielding its power as one of the biggest school textbook markets there is.

With that in mind, here’s a list of 11 lies your kid may be in danger of learning in school.

11 heinous lies conservatives are teaching America's schoolchildren | Salon.com


This is an excellent illustration that contradicts directly the Putin-Trump And Rowers campaign that "truth is not true."
Click to expand...

Ummm, excuse me Salon, you left out a couple of even larger lies:

12. America is not a democracy
13. Hitler and the Nazis were leftist liberals
 
Beowulf said:
The constitution grants no power to issue fiat currency. Make sense?
Click to expand...

seemed like a good idea but then we had 7000 private currencies and changed our minds.
 
Checkerboard Strangler said:
13. Hitler and the Nazis were leftist liberals
Click to expand...

True enough, this is why they spied for Hitler and Stalin and even gave Stalin the bomb while 60 million innocent souls were slowly being starved to death owning to the liberal inefficiencies of libcommunism.
 
Checkerboard Strangler said:
12. America is not a democracy
Click to expand...

well, to be accurate it's a Republican Constitutional Representative Democracy which means there are great limitations on the power of the people owning to their obvious short comings.

Winston Churchill: The best argument against democracy is a 5 minute conversation with an average voter."
 
ataraxia said:
It's funny these Germans now think they are "one of us" with those English who originally created this nation, and are using skin tone as some kind of proxy. Where did they get the idea that they need to be reverent toward or have any sense of ownership of this system made by somebody else? LOL.

It seems to me if they can do it, anybody can.
Click to expand...

The key here is to remember that immigrants should look like us, not like Mexicans. Do you understand?
 
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