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What Comes After Impeachment?

marke said:
Democrats must first win the Senate in 2020 and keep the House, which they might can do if enough felons vote, voters who vote multiple times in the same election vote early and often, dead people vote early and often, illegals vote democrat by the coyote wagons full, and democrat election workers stuff enough ballot boxes with democrat votes to swing the election in their favor.
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Putin would never let that happen.
 
Praxas said:
By not doing anything the Dems will be defacto approving the type of behavior Trump has demonstrated.
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They are still investigating as is the SDNY, leave it it will not go over well. Win in a way that cannot be disputed.
 
marke said:
Democrats must first win the Senate in 2020 and keep the House, which they might can do if enough felons vote, voters who vote multiple times in the same election vote early and often, dead people vote early and often, illegals vote democrat by the coyote wagons full, and democrat election workers stuff enough ballot boxes with democrat votes to swing the election in their favor.
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When I see drivel like this in written print it makes me ashamed that we share the same nationality.
 
Lutherf said:
It did happen with Obama but the right wing media covered all the wonderful stuff up as part of a conspiracy to get Trump elected.
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Oh, I see, the stuff you know about is all super double secret. And us peons just can't see reality. We're all fooled by verdicts and plea deals and real stuff like that.
 
lwf said:
Putin would never let that happen.
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Those who think Putin has influence in the US he does not have are wrong to promote their wrong assumptions as if their conspiracy theories are irrefutable.
 
Vadinho said:
When I see drivel like this in written print it makes me ashamed that we share the same nationality.
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We don't share the same nationality. I am from God Bless America, not the hedonist state of Californicastan.
 
marke said:
Those who think Putin has influence in the US he does not have are wrong to promote their wrong assumptions as if their conspiracy theories are irrefutable.
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And you are wrong to promote the conspiracy theory that felons, dead people, and illegal immigrants are voting in our elections, and that democrats are stuffing the ballot boxes.
 
lwf said:
And you are wrong to promote the conspiracy theory that felons, dead people, and illegal immigrants are voting in our elections, and that democrats are stuffing the ballot boxes.
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Illegal immigrants have been found voting in elections. So have felons, dead people and voters who vote more than once in the same election. The Jill Stein recount had to be suspended in Michigan after so many stuffed ballot boxes kept turning up in democrat precincts.
 
marke said:
Illegal immigrants have been found voting in elections. So have felons, dead people and voters who vote more than once in the same election. The Jill Stein recount had to be suspended in Michigan after so many stuffed ballot boxes kept turning up in democrat precincts.
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And Russia interfered to Trump's benefit in the 2016 election.
 
Rexedgar said:
What happens next?

Congress takes up impeachment, the results are forwarded to the Senate and the Senate votes to convict, speaking hypothetically, here.

What follows a vote to impeach? Is there an appeal? Is the Presidency over?
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What Comes After Impeachment?

Lock him up!
 
Lutherf said:
It did happen with Obama but the right wing media covered all the wonderful stuff up as part of a conspiracy to get Trump elected.
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Ah HA! I knew those Nazis did something underhanded.
 
lwf said:
And Russia interfered to Trump's benefit in the 2016 election.
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That's the conspiracy theory Hillary and pals over at the DNC have been promoting ever since some insider at the DNC released incriminating DNC emails to Julian Assange.
 
Lutherf said:
Trump will be removed from office. Pence will become President. Democrats will call for a special counsel to investigate his religious beliefs. Pence will be impeached. The Senate will convict. Pence will be removed from Office. Pelosi will become president. The world will rejoice. Doves will fly from the hands of babies..
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What a wonderful world it would be.
 
Lutherf said:
Trump will be removed from office. Pence will become President. Democrats will call for a special counsel to investigate his religious beliefs. Pence will be impeached. The Senate will convict. Pence will be removed from Office. Pelosi will become president. The world will rejoice. Doves will fly from the hands of babies. Manna will fall from a decidedly non-religious but essentially earth bound spiritual force and the bellies of the hungry will be filled. The seas will become bountiful with fish which we will no longer kill. The air will be cleansed and polluting cars, trains and planes will be replaced by magic carpets propelled by love and peace. The glaciers will grow back, the deserts will bloom, and humankind will no longer want for anything.
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It's true!

Its' true!

:2wave:
 
Rexedgar said:
What happens next?

Congress takes up impeachment, the results are forwarded to the Senate and the Senate votes to convict, speaking hypothetically, here.

What follows a vote to impeach? Is there an appeal? Is the Presidency over?
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The Senate probably won't vote to convict. End of story.

In the hypothetical situation where Trump becomes the first president to actually be removed from office, we get Pence. I doubt that the guy who sat idly by will represent any sort of substantial change in policy. The whole thing is a pointless wet-dream. We should be focusing on how to best defeat him in 2020, and the optics of the Democratics and the media putting all their chips on the Russian angle does more to hurt, rather help, regardless of whether or not Trump is actually a Russian agent. The appearance is that our side of the fence has given to hyperbole, particularly in the case of figures like Racheal Maddow, who can't seem to talk about anything else other than Russia.

At the end of the day, other investigations will probably reveal garden-variaty corruption and crimes, but his supporters need to ignore all that is 'no collusion, not a Russian puppet'. He's going to end up shrugging off any scandalous information that any investigation reaps, because so much focus in the media and in the overall aim was invested in proving the most extreme possibility--that he's litterally a traitor actively in league with a rival power, all because the Democrats lost to a reality-television imbecile, and because WikiLeaks published emails that were not flattering to the DNC.

Great job.
 
lwf said:
Nope. It's now an established fact.
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First we need to establish that allegations are not to be assumed to be facts until proven beyond doubt. Nevertheless, let's examine what the Mueller report does say and does not say. The report identifies several entities involved in the investigation of alleged hacking of the DNC computers by Russians.

1. Guccifer 2 - said by investigators to be a fictitious persona allegedly created by The Russian GRU in June 2016. Mueller's team said Guccifer asked DCLeaks to release the leaked DNC emails, but DCLeaks apparently did not leak the DNC emails, WikiLeaks did. Mueller's team also said Guccifer may have communicated with WikiLeaks "possibly though WikiLeaks' private communication system."
2. DCLeaks - said by investigators to have been responsible for leaking DNC data before the July 22, 2016 WikiLeaks release of 20,000 stolen DNC emails.
3. Andrew Miller Manghum - person who may have hand carried stolen emails to Julian Assange. Obviously, there is some doubt and confusion as to how WikiLeaks got its hands on the data.
4. Seth Rich - described by Mueller as a former DNC staffer who Assange and WikiLeaks "implied falsely that he had been the source of the stolen DNC emails." Why did Mueller reject the Assange claim while unquestioningly accepting the unproven DNC claim that it was the Russians who stole the emails? DC police investigated the Rich murder and concluded it was a botched robbery, which is strange because Rich's effects on his person when he was shot in the middle of the street at night were not taken, but his home computer and data devices were.
 
Rexedgar said:
What happens next?

Congress takes up impeachment, the results are forwarded to the Senate and the Senate votes to convict, speaking hypothetically, here.

What follows a vote to impeach? Is there an appeal? Is the Presidency over?
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The Vice President would be sworn in, and the President would have to carry out whatever sentence the Senate handed down.
 
WillyPete said:
We elected him as a nation. With his extremely shady history, it's pretty clear what a person can get away with already.

My read is that a failed impeachment (galvanizing his base, potentially splitting the Dems) coupled with a reactionary far-left candidate on the other side, is likely Trump's best chance at a 2020 victory. The whole time the impeachment is grinding along, no one is going to be talking about solving our nation's various problems.

It's not worth it if we can't get him out of office. We're stuck with him regardless until 2020. We're better off getting set up to make him irrelevant then.
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This is a derailed comment that deserves a dedicated discussion.
Anticipating the Train Wreck
 
marke said:
First we need to establish that allegations are not to be assumed to be facts until proven beyond doubt. Nevertheless, let's examine what the Mueller report does say and does not say. The report identifies several entities involved in the investigation of alleged hacking of the DNC computers by Russians.

1. Guccifer 2 - said by investigators to be a fictitious persona allegedly created by The Russian GRU in June 2016. Mueller's team said Guccifer asked DCLeaks to release the leaked DNC emails, but DCLeaks apparently did not leak the DNC emails, WikiLeaks did. Mueller's team also said Guccifer may have communicated with WikiLeaks "possibly though WikiLeaks' private communication system."
2. DCLeaks - said by investigators to have been responsible for leaking DNC data before the July 22, 2016 WikiLeaks release of 20,000 stolen DNC emails.
3. Andrew Miller Manghum - person who may have hand carried stolen emails to Julian Assange. Obviously, there is some doubt and confusion as to how WikiLeaks got its hands on the data.
4. Seth Rich - described by Mueller as a former DNC staffer who Assange and WikiLeaks "implied falsely that he had been the source of the stolen DNC emails." Why did Mueller reject the Assange claim while unquestioningly accepting the unproven DNC claim that it was the Russians who stole the emails? DC police investigated the Rich murder and concluded it was a botched robbery, which is strange because Rich's effects on his person when he was shot in the middle of the street at night were not taken, but his home computer and data devices were.
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You are grasping at straws. This is how conspiracy theories develop. Let's look at what the Mueller report DOES say:

From Mueller report: What to know about Russian election interference:

"Using fictitious U.S. personas, IRA employees operated social media accounts and group pages designed to attract U.S. audiences," the report says. "By early to mid-2016, IRA operations included supporting the Trump Campaign and disparaging candidate Hillary Clinton."

The report cited an anti-Clinton ad from March 2016 with a caption that read in part, "If one day God lets this liar enter the White House as a president – that day would be a real national tragedy."

The operations seized on social divisions and showed a clear bias toward Trump, said Young Mie Kim, a professor at the University of Wisconsin-Madison whose research analyzed 3,500 Facebook ads bought by Russia and released last year by the House Intelligence Committee.

"If the goal was to simply sow the division, then you should see voter suppression targeting likely Trump voters," Kim said in an email. "We found ZERO voter suppression targeting likely Trump voters."

“At least in the short to mid-term, they were fairly successful in achieving a number of their objectives,” said Jones, who is an expert on Russian disinformation.

What the Mueller report made clear, Jones said, is “this was about trying to foment polarization in the U.S. before the election and has continued since and has surrounded major issues from the #MeToo movement to Black Lives Matter to gun control.”

The Russians wanted to weaken the United States. because “they view a period of significant internal discord as weakening us both at home and overseas,” Jones said.

The benefit for them, he said, is that internal partisan discord can stall a range of U.S. domestic and foreign policy decisions, such as the withdrawal of U.S. troops from Syria and Afghanistan.

"This is much, much bigger than elections,” Jones said.

Not only were the Russians able to successfully exploit divisions that already existed in the U.S., they also were able to undermine the legitimacy of the electoral process, McFaul said.

“Millions of Americans have now questioned the legitimacy of President Trump, and that’s damaging to the United States and that is good for Russia,” he said.
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lwf said:
You are grasping at straws. This is how conspiracy theories develop. Let's look at what the Mueller report DOES say:
The Russians wanted to weaken the United States. because “they view a period of significant internal discord as weakening us both at home and overseas,” Jones said.

The benefit for them, he said, is that internal partisan discord can stall a range of U.S. domestic and foreign policy decisions, such as the withdrawal of U.S. troops from Syria and Afghanistan.

"This is much, much bigger than elections,” Jones said.

Not only were the Russians able to successfully exploit divisions that already existed in the U.S., they also were able to undermine the legitimacy of the electoral process, McFaul said.

“Millions of Americans have now questioned the legitimacy of President Trump, and that’s damaging to the United States and that is good for Russia,” he said.
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The reason why the Russians want to weaken our system is because it is possible to do so.

The Russians are trying to fix the world - world peace. And the problem is they/we need a government chartering system that can be universally deployed for all nations, and their subsequent, municipalities; and the U.S. system that we campaign to be the model for the developing nations is inoperable for them - it does not convert well at all.

It works for us because our government is a product of all of the adjustments and the subsequent society's, acceptance of the pompous campaign cycles that developing society cannot replicate.

It is difficult for the average citizen to understand this, because our government officers (State Department) are not inclined to explain to you that the system is erroneous, because they are obligated to defend it - especially, if they cannot produce a successful replacement.

Think about - why don't the developing countries adopt our magnificent divinely established three-part model of representatives and senators on the three levels???
 
Prof_Lunaphiles said:
The reason why the Russians want to weaken our system is because it is possible to do so.

The Russians are trying to fix the world - world peace. And the problem is they/we need a government chartering system that can be universally deployed for all nations, and their subsequent, municipalities; and the U.S. system that we campaign to be the model for the developing nations is inoperable for them - it does not convert well at all.

It works for us because our government is a product of all of the adjustments and the subsequent society's, acceptance of the pompous campaign cycles that developing society cannot replicate.

It is difficult for the average citizen to understand this, because our government officers (State Department) are not inclined to explain to you that the system is erroneous, because they are obligated to defend it - especially, if they cannot produce a successful replacement.

Think about - why don't the developing countries adopt our magnificent divinely established three-part model of representatives and senators on the three levels???
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I don't believe such a government exists. And strong and weak are relative terms. American style democracy is weak if your goal is to get things done rapidly and effect drastic change in a few years' time. It is immensely strong if your goal is to avoid totalitarianism and protect human rights.
 
WillyPete said:
He'd resign before it reached that point, and it's not like Pence isn't going to pardon him, in that eventuality.

But, since the support isn't there in the Senate to remove him, the outcome is a forgone conclusion.

Why hand Trump a victory during an election year?
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I wish you hadn't brought that fact up.
 
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