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Thread: Call for Constitutional Conventions

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    Call for Constitutional Conventions

    Eventually, the states, municipalities, and federal government will have to be reorganized.

    First and foremost, the fact that there are multiple interpretations of the almighty United States Constitution is a major problem, now, than when the compromise was institutionalized by the Supreme Court decision that concluded that it was the Court's mission to interpret the Constitution. Modern organizational techniques and sophistication should lead us to recognize that such a compromise is unacceptable. It is absurd to believe that the compromise is acceptable and then complain that the other people are not interpreting the Constitution correctly.

    The realization that we should have a constitutional convention that involves all of the racial demographics at the fabled table, should be the irrefutable argument that commences the revolution, but there is a problem. It appears that the only people with anything close to reformation plans to get the party started, are white men; and non-whites are probably going to resent that aspect of the process. But we do need to get the show on the road if we want to solve the complex grievances conflicted in social stratification issues such as the residual effects of instituted racial discrimination that continue to depress non-white people, and reparations for slavery.

    The only way to solve the grievances of systemic racial biases will require constitutional conventions that include non-white delegates to the conventions to guard against the racially biased policies.

    The American governing system is flawed, because even the best and noblest of statesmen did not have the information concerning government operations that would be necessary for ordering a more reliable charter. The governing system that controls the American society is inadequately separated, improperly commissioned, and not well graduated; and cannot be corrected by even the most sophisticated amendment systems. Consequently, this causes a stalling effect on the approach to justice and tranquility.

    To approach the proper deliberation of the economic and cultural issues that honest and sophisticated people expect of a well designed government, the entire multi-level system will have to be reordered. Amendments to the subsisting constitutions will not correct the faulty structure of the government, because the structure of the government is relative to the outline of the charter (table of contents). Casual review of any of the contemporary charters that comprise our three-level government system will reveal that the charters are inconsistently organized and contain rambling passages that, consequently, explain why other nations cannot replicate the governing system that we know and trust (dogma), and illustrates how our sophist legal practitioners and corporate entities exploit the ambiguous terms and obscure inadequacies. Corruption is not symptomatic of nefarious persons manipulating an altruistic just governing system; but rather, it is symptomatic of nefarious persons manipulating a perpetually faulty system. Perpetual corruption is ultimately symptomatic of an inadequate separation and coordination of the government responsibilities.

    The founders, and subsequent generations, only had one simple formula to work with, and a relatively limited supply of paper, ink, endurance, and basically strict parameters of designs that would engage the few literate citizens in 1787. The formula accurately divides the government into the three phases of governing, but what they did not have was a formula for the subsequent divisions of those three parts; and consequently, what we have now, is a semi-chaotic mess that is politely referred to as “political gridlock,” that trickles down in the forms of corruption, hypocrisy, hysteria, frustration, criminality, and violence.
    The founders only had one simple formula for organizing government, and a relatively limited supply of paper, ink, endurance; and basically, parameters of simple designs that would engage the few literate citizens of 1787. We need to have a constitutional convention that gathers the diversity of people and technology that the founders could not gather.

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    Re: Call for Constitutional Conventions

    ... right.
    "Democracy without respect for individual rights sucks. It's just ganging up against the weird kid, and I'm always the weird kid." - Penn Jillette.

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    Re: Call for Constitutional Conventions

    The SCOTUS "compromise" in Marbury v. Madison to which you refer to was based on English common law principles. The Judge interprets the law, a jury is the finder of facts.

    Whenever there is a dispute, there must be a commonly accepted method of dispute resolution or the dispute can and will end up in violence.

    All parties must agree that the process is fair, whether or not they agree with the result. Otherwise, parties will take the law into their own hands.

    We have accepted the process of Judicial Review as the most reasonable method of Constitutional dispute resolution.

    In those instances where the ruling is deemed "unfair and/or biased" the Constitution allows for redress in the form of both Congresses power to pass new or changes to existing law, and our Nation's ability to amend the Constitution. That has happened 27 times already.

    The system works, and it will continue to work as long as our culture doesn't balkanize into arguing sub-groups ultimately leading to civil war.

    I do not agree with your premises. They are based on Identity Politics and cultural divides. IMO all that is necessary is to require assimilation by those who wish to become part of this nation to the basic belief systems of our founding culture.

    IMO it is this constant attempt to divide us into monolithically unbending identity groups, based on race, identity, gender, and some hierarchy of oppression which has led to the problems you complain about.
    Last edited by Captain Adverse; 04-21-19 at 02:49 PM.
    If I stop responding it doesn't mean I've conceded the point or agree with you. It only means I've made my point and I don't mind you having the last word. Please wait a few minutes before "quoting" me. I often correct errors for a minute or two after I post before the final product is ready.

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    Re: Call for Constitutional Conventions

    IMO, the federal government has inserted into the affairs in with it was not designed to do. The federal government was designed to handle the external affairs of the Union and leave the internal affairs up to the States. The issues becomes, the federal government trying to please the needs of all peoples, this will only result in confusion and impotence in the government, leading to what we are seeing today. Like the ole saying ".............you can not please all the people all the time". It is not the federal governments business to please the people, the government business is laid out in the Constitution, there is no reason to change it.
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    Re: Call for Constitutional Conventions

    Thank you for your service, Terryj;

    Quote Originally Posted by Terryj View Post
    IMO, the federal government has inserted into the affairs in with it was not designed to do. The federal government was designed to handle the external affairs of the Union and leave the internal affairs up to the States.
    That is a valid and reasonable projection; but the eventual exercise of civil rights enactments and enforcement by the federal government would seem to indicate that the intrusion, that you might describe it to be, was justified.

    Quote Originally Posted by Terryj View Post
    The issues becomes, the federal government trying to please the needs of all peoples, this will only result in confusion and impotence in the government, leading to what we are seeing today. Like the ole saying ".............you can not please all the people all the time". It is not the federal governments business to please the people, the government business is laid out in the Constitution, there is no reason to change it.
    I would tend to agree with that, and that the only solution has to deploy segregation to accommodate the community organization that people want to provide for the betterment of their posterity.

    So, in retrospect of how things have evolved, I think it would have been just for the federal government to have provided the emancipated slaves with a territory to settle. I would bet that it was suggested, the "forty acres and a mule" promise comes to mind; and I read a report that lead me to believe that a settlement was established, but most died after the first year.

    Anyway, that is support evidence for reparations.

    I think the federal government has a mission to regulate commerce, protect the citizens from persecution, and provide an appeals courts to the states and embassy courts for diplomatic affairs not much different than what it provides for the states; to provide for securing foreign trade (commerce), and appeals from foreign citizens claiming to being persecuted - different laws for different jurisdictions.
    The founders only had one simple formula for organizing government, and a relatively limited supply of paper, ink, endurance; and basically, parameters of simple designs that would engage the few literate citizens of 1787. We need to have a constitutional convention that gathers the diversity of people and technology that the founders could not gather.

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    Re: Call for Constitutional Conventions

    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Adverse View Post
    The SCOTUS "compromise" in Marbury v. Madison to which you refer to was based on English common law principles. The Judge interprets the law, a jury is the finder of facts.

    Whenever there is a dispute, there must be a commonly accepted method of dispute resolution or the dispute can and will end up in violence.

    All parties must agree that the process is fair, whether or not they agree with the result. Otherwise, parties will take the law into their own hands.
    I believe that the constitutions should lay that all out in plain easy to understand for every language. As easy as you believe it to be to understand how the system works, I believe it absurd to believe that the foreigners who speak a different language can understand how the system works. You and I, and most everyone else knows that there are a lot of citizens in this country who do speak the language, but they don't understand how it works. So, how can we expect these foreigners to understand how it works???

    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Adverse View Post
    We have accepted the process of Judicial Review as the most reasonable method of Constitutional dispute resolution.
    I think we should have a judge from each state on the Supreme Court; something they could not do when it was all put together. What do you think about that for judicial review?

    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Adverse View Post
    In those instances where the ruling is deemed "unfair and/or biased" the Constitution allows for redress in the form of both Congresses power to pass new or changes to existing law, and our Nation's ability to amend the Constitution. That has happened 27 times already.
    How can a court rule unfairly, yet be valid???

    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Adverse View Post
    The system works, and it will continue to work as long as our culture doesn't balkanize into arguing sub-groups ultimately leading to civil war.
    The system works, because it is a product of its own evolution of adjustments to please people who do not know any better way of organizing a just government, because there has never been an update to the three part theory.

    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Adverse View Post
    I do not agree with your premises. They are based on Identity Politics and cultural divides. IMO all that is necessary is to require assimilation by those who wish to become part of this nation to the basic belief systems of our founding culture.
    What are you talking about??? You are not so dumb as to not expect the non-whites to object to the founding principle of allowing slavery. And, you are not going to be able to convince me that the principle of "created equal," is a valid truth. And then when it gets to the language of the Preamble, well, you know just as well, as anybody else, that the liberals have a completely different understanding of what that is all about.

    We do not agree to what it is, and we have to define the words and complex terms to get everyone on the same page; and we can do that now, because of the modern communications technology we have, now, that they did not have then. It will take some time and sophisticated experts to do it, but we have the tech and people to do it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Adverse View Post
    IMO it is this constant attempt to divide us into monolithically unbending identity groups, based on race, identity, gender, and some hierarchy of oppression which has led to the problems you complain about.
    Yeah, I am pretty sure segregation is going to be a part of the solution. we can do it much better than what they failed to do in the past, because of the lack of communications, transportation, and sophistication, of the past eras that we reflect upon as being tragic episodes in our history.
    The founders only had one simple formula for organizing government, and a relatively limited supply of paper, ink, endurance; and basically, parameters of simple designs that would engage the few literate citizens of 1787. We need to have a constitutional convention that gathers the diversity of people and technology that the founders could not gather.

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    Re: Call for Constitutional Conventions

    Quote Originally Posted by Prof_Lunaphiles View Post
    Thank you for your service, Terryj;


    That is a valid and reasonable projection; but the eventual exercise of civil rights enactments and enforcement by the federal government would seem to indicate that the intrusion, that you might describe it to be, was justified.

    I would tend to agree with that, and that the only solution has to deploy segregation to accommodate the community organization that people want to provide for the betterment of their posterity.

    So, in retrospect of how things have evolved, I think it would have been just for the federal government to have provided the emancipated slaves with a territory to settle. I would bet that it was suggested, the "forty acres and a mule" promise comes to mind; and I read a report that lead me to believe that a settlement was established, but most died after the first year.

    Anyway, that is support evidence for reparations.

    I think the federal government has a mission to regulate commerce, protect the citizens from persecution, and provide an appeals courts to the states and embassy courts for diplomatic affairs not much different than what it provides for the states; to provide for securing foreign trade (commerce), and appeals from foreign citizens claiming to being persecuted - different laws for different jurisdictions.
    The 40 acres and a mule (the mule came later) was Special Order 15, 400,000 acres of the Southern States coastal lands were given up to the blacks. It didn't die after a year, after Lincoln was killed Johnson rescinded the order and returned all the lands to their previous owners.
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    Re: Call for Constitutional Conventions

    Quote Originally Posted by WillyPete View Post
    Doubtless when you finally get around to describing your proposal it'll blow everyone's minds.
    My proposal begins by suggesting that there is a valid formula for subdividing the three branches (of the legal process) that can be rendered in a table:

    Legislature
    Judiciary Courts
    Executive Security
    Justice Council
    Sovereignty Law
    Defense Department
    Court Supervisors
    Martial Law
    Intelligence Department
    Senate of Jurists
    Diplomacy Law
    State Department
    Board of Commerce
    Commerce Law
    Commerce Department
    League of Attorneys
    Trust Law
    Justice Department
    Network of Representatives
    Property Law
    Interior Department

    And then it can be rendered in the chart form:

    SLCS.US4CC.gvmnt.wh_bg.jpg

    Quote Originally Posted by WillyPete View Post
    Sure, why not, but if you were to make a splash (here or whereever) you bend or you don't go wide. DP's great, but it doesn't have the traffic right now to start a national movement.

    It's not like major media is combing through DP looking for the next big story (no offense intended to DP, they probably should be.)
    Everything has to start somewhere. Most people are like you - they do not want to do the hard work of actually composing a new system. It is difficult. It took me three years (4 complete revisions) of redrafting systems until I realized the ultimately reliable system.
    Last edited by Prof_Lunaphiles; 04-27-19 at 01:31 PM.
    The founders only had one simple formula for organizing government, and a relatively limited supply of paper, ink, endurance; and basically, parameters of simple designs that would engage the few literate citizens of 1787. We need to have a constitutional convention that gathers the diversity of people and technology that the founders could not gather.

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    Re: Call for Constitutional Conventions

    Constitutional revision commissions are fraught with danger. One of the many problems is the membership of the commission itself. Given the partisanship extant, how can such a commission be composed so that any changes proposed do not 'bake in' concepts near and dear to one side or t'other? [Ed.: It matters not how you slice the sides. Rep/Dem, con/lib, red/blue: all constitute similar dangers.]

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    Re: Call for Constitutional Conventions

    Quote Originally Posted by Torus34 View Post
    Constitutional revision commissions are fraught with danger. One of the many problems is the membership of the commission itself. Given the partisanship extant, how can such a commission be composed so that any changes proposed do not 'bake in' concepts near and dear to one side or t'other? [Ed.: It matters not how you slice the sides. Rep/Dem, con/lib, red/blue: all constitute similar dangers.]
    My worry is that we don't really have people smart enough for the task.
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