The Electoral College: Purpose, Problems, Alternatives

OpportunityCost said:

And out come the butthurt sour grapes.

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Your silly personal slur aside - can you present even one report that ANY of the electors meetings did what Hamilton said they would do and protect us from foreign nations installing a creature of their own in the Presidency? Let us see it.

OpportunityCost said:

You want a fishing pole?

Its not a virtue to make unproven accusations so you can feel better about yourself and get adulation from peers.

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Then why is that your main mode of argumentation?

OpportunityCost said:

Their votes will matter even less under a popular vote Presidential system.

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That is just, plain, BS. If you had any integrity, you would not say such things.

How is a vote "worth less" if it is counted the same as every other?

Casca XV said:

Now this is just getting sad, I almost feel sorry for you.

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Save your energy for your own education

You certainly need it

Point #1, The USA is a democracy AND a Constitutional Republic - despite to protections from many on the right
Point #2, The new USA had no more freedom than the colonial power it left - and actually less since the USA embraced slavery whilst Britain never did

Your response is bordering on pathetic, I guess that's what you get when a hour long internet search proves fruitless. I'm sorry the historical facts are so uncomfortable for you.

James972 said:

obviously its a republican democracy....

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Or democratic Republic is a better way of expressing it

...these concepts are way way over your liberal head. Yes we have had lynch mobs but the whole country has not turned into a lib Nazi communist monarchist lynch because our genius Founders tried to make centralized power ie liberalism illegal. Notice the way a liberal makes a conservative free like a kindergarten teacher?

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They're clearly over yours since you don't know what they mean as evidenced by your insistence that Hitler ans Stalin were liberals

And no liberal government is not necessarily for strong central government or necessarily big government but one that seeks to draw power and wealth from the better off and spread them amongst the population. This included wealth and income as well as the spread of political power (something in violent contrast to Hitler and Stalin)

...dear, democracy is, strictly speaking, when the people control everything. When they have representatives courts agencies etc all making decisions too you have a modified democracy, a republican democracy, a constitutional democracy or a representative democracy. Does the liberal grasp it now?

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Stop your insults, democracy is the spreading of political power

A Constitutional Democracy is a tautology

The USA is a Representative Democracy and a Constitutional Republic - if ever you study politics, perhaps you will learn what the terms mean.

You're wedded to this crazy idea that a conservative is for mall government. Perhaps some are and have been, I can't think of many alive today.
Today conservatives are for big government but differ from liberals on how the state should divide the wealth.

The moment you understand this, is when you can start learning about politics. Because right now you really don't know what you're talking about.

...in the original draft of the Declaration, Jefferson condemned King George III of forcing the African slave trade on the American colonies...

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Really ? I haven't seen it and more fool him because George III forced slavery on no-one...what's more the slave trade continued afterwards
And George III, aside from his mental health problems, was the head of state not the head of government (which was Lord North at the end of the Revolutionary War Btw) a split between head of state and government was a major failure of your "genius" founding fathers.

...In his Summary View of the Rights of British America (1774)...

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Yada yada yada

And where did you copy and paste that from ?

Secondly do you actually have a point or wish to wallow in hero worship of you precious "genius" founding fathers ?

There's a reason why you won't reveal your young age and obvious limited education.

OpportunityCost said:

That's the point! Its to protect the smaller states.

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From what ?

...to prevent larger population states from dominating all aspects of politics in the US. Its the reason why the Senate exists and its the reason why the Electoral College is set up the way it is: as a compromise between large and small states. You think its a bug, its not, its a feature....

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by reducing the political power of voters in large states.


Just what do you think larger population states will impose on the smaller population states ?

Rich2018 said:

From what ?




by reducing the political power of voters in large states.


Just what do you think larger population states will impose on the smaller population states ?

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You don't seem to understand, the Constitution wouldn't have been ratified without it. It was a compromise to get it passed, to ensure the voices of smaller states would still be heard.

NWRatCon said:

That is just, plain, BS. If you had any integrity, you would not say such things.

How is a vote "worth less" if it is counted the same as every other?

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If I had any integrity? You rephrase this nonsense and I MIGHT reply to you. Mind you damn manners.

OpportunityCost said:

You don't seem to understand, the Constitution wouldn't have been ratified without it. It was a compromise to get it passed, to ensure the voices of smaller states would still be heard.

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And it was ratified. Over 230 years ago. So that threat is long ago gone with the wind and is no longer a consideration.

The words of Founding Father Thomas Jefferson seem apt here

“I am not an advocate for frequent changes in laws and Constitutions. But laws and institutions must go hand in hand with the progress of the human mind. As that becomes more developed, more enlightened, as new discoveries are made, new truths discovered and manners and opinions change, with the change of circumstances, institutions must advance also to keep pace with the times. We might as well require a man to wear still the coat which fitted him when a boy as civilized society to remain ever under the regimen of their barbarous ancestors.”


We no longer need mathematical affirmative for smaller states as appeasement to stay within the nation.

NWRatCon said:

How so? Evidence? Argument? Examples? Or, is this just the typical idiocy of ideological tribalism?

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Democrats being evil is quite a venerated tradition in the past, present, and future.

""Trump is a Traitor. Trump Has Destroyed Our Democracy. It's Time to Destroy Trump & Co." he posted on his personal Facebook page on March 22."--Hodgkinson

The Secret Racist History of the Democratic Party

Setting the Record Straight: American History in Black & White

Report of the Joint Select Committee to Inquire Into the Condition of Affairs in the Late Insurrectionary States

"Today, the Democratic Party no longer needs the help of political gangs wearing pointy hoods to do their dirty work. Instead, they do it themselves. You may recall the case of black Tea Party activist Kenneth Gladney, who was brutally beaten by two SEIU members during a 2009 health care town hall meeting. In February 2011, a union thug with Communications Workers of America was caught on tape physically assaulting a young female FreedomWorks activist in Washington, DC. Then in 2012, Michigan Education Association President Steve Cook jumped on the protest bandwagon against the state’s new right-to-work legislation stating, “Whoever votes for this is not going to have any peace for the next two years.” An even worse threat was issued on the floor of the Michigan House of Representatives the next day by Democratic Representative Douglas Geiss who charged, “There will be blood!”

As we forge ahead into this critical 2016 election season, let us not forget the real history of America when blacks and whites, primarily Republicans, worked side by side defending the rights and dignity of all Americans. It’s a history that has been kept out of the history books--a history that today’s Democrats routinely lie about while promptly pointing their finger at Republicans, calling white Republicans racists and black Republicans Uncle Toms. This is because Democrats have a secret past that must be protected and an agenda that must be fulfilled. If history is any indication of what the future might hold, brace yourself. There will be some in the Democratic Party who will be prepared to do whatever it takes to silence any opposition."

Democrats erasing history in American South

""The city plans to pull down four statues, those of Jefferson Davis, PGT Beauregard, the Crescent City White League and Robert E. Lee," he noted. "I hope they tell the folks in New Orleans that all of these monuments honor Democrats, and that the Confederacy was led solely by Southern leaders of the Democrat Party. In a Democrat city like New Orleans, I can't understand why Democrat leaders want old venerated Democrat heroes taken down!""

To hide the sins of their past to recreate their old policies.

haymarket said:

Your silly personal slur aside - can you present even one report that ANY of the electors meetings did what Hamilton said they would do and protect us from foreign nations installing a creature of their own in the Presidency? Let us see it.

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LOL your bar of evidence is legislative meetings that there is no way I could know anything about? Hard pass. Hamilton put it in there over English interference. Figure it out.

NWRatCon said:

Then why is that your main mode of argumentation?

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I don't care who is reading my posts, I don't care if they approve of them or not, and I will not be pressured one way or the other.

Stop getting personal, address the issues.

haymarket said:

And it was ratified. Over 230 years ago. So that threat is long ago gone with the wind and is no longer a consideration.

The words of Founding Father Thomas Jefferson seem apt here

“I am not an advocate for frequent changes in laws and Constitutions. But laws and institutions must go hand in hand with the progress of the human mind. As that becomes more developed, more enlightened, as new discoveries are made, new truths discovered and manners and opinions change, with the change of circumstances, institutions must advance also to keep pace with the times. We might as well require a man to wear still the coat which fitted him when a boy as civilized society to remain ever under the regimen of their barbarous ancestors.”


We no longer need mathematical affirmative for smaller states as appeasement to stay within the nation.

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Then change the Constitution. This ineffectual, mendacious nonsense makes no difference. Act.

OpportunityCost said:

LOL your bar of evidence is legislative meetings that there is no way I could know anything about? Hard pass. Hamilton put it in there over English interference. Figure it out.

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Perhaps you have heard of this institution we have that reports on such thing - it is called THE PRESS?

Where does it say ENGLISH INTERFERENCE? It does not say that. Here is what Hamilton does say

These most deadly adversaries of republican government might naturally have been expected to make their approaches from more than one querter, but chiefly from the desire in foreign powers to gain an improper ascendant in our councils. How could they better gratify this, than by raising a creature of their own to the chief magistracy of the Union?

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Unless you have been channelling Hamilton and we do not know about it, you are wrong.

OpportunityCost said:

Then change the Constitution. This ineffectual, mendacious nonsense makes no difference. Act.

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Perhaps I may have mentioned once or twice that this will eventually happen when Republicans are bit in the ass by the Electoral College after winning the popular vote and they give up their current stance and return to supporting the popular vote like many Republicans used to favor.

OpportunityCost said:

Their votes will matter even less under a popular vote Presidential system.

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Well, that just takes the cake. I have a hard time wondering how some folks got out of college given the reasoning abilities of folks. We are done.

Vadinho said:

If the people of California are in step with the majority of Americans and vote together, why shouldn't the people of California be considered equally with the rest of their voting compatriots?

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well, we don't really want regions like California running the country. We want democratic authority spread out across the entire country. We want diversity. Especially now when the sophisticated people on the coasts tend to vote socialism even after socialism just killed 120 million.

James972 said:

well, we don't really want regions like California running the country. We want democratic authority spread out across the entire country. We want diversity. Especially now when the sophisticated people on the coasts tend to vote socialism even after socialism just killed 120 million.

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I always thought we want the American people running the country regardless of where they slept.

James972 said:

well, we don't really want regions like California running the country. We want democratic authority spread out across the entire country. We want diversity. Especially now when the sophisticated people on the coasts tend to vote socialism even after socialism just killed 120 million.

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I see. You want my tax money but not my vote. You want my contribution to our nation in every way but my vote. I got it. You are an elite voter, I am not. In fact, your vote is so important that we give it more power then my vote. Why? Because you are a real Murican, a man who represents the real Murica, the salt of the earth, the lily white underbelly of all that is good and proper and righteous. You are Mayberry RFD, we are Fast Times at Ridgemont High. I get it, you are truly a special person. Our nation needs you to make decisions, not me or my fellow Californians. Just let us create the worlds entertainment, the technology, the food, the next new paradigm shift but do not, under any circumstances, let us have the same voting power as you. Why? Because you are special.

Vadinho said:

Well, that just takes the cake. I have a hard time wondering how some folks got out of college given the reasoning abilities of folks. We are done.

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Do I now get to mock your intelligence in some way?

haymarket said:

Perhaps I may have mentioned once or twice that this will eventually happen when Republicans are bit in the ass by the Electoral College after winning the popular vote and they give up their current stance and return to supporting the popular vote like many Republicans used to favor.

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It won't. Its about the states' role in determining the President. They will be loath to give it up.

haymarket said:

Perhaps you have heard of this institution we have that reports on such thing - it is called THE PRESS?

Where does it say ENGLISH INTERFERENCE? It does not say that. Here is what Hamilton does say




Unless you have been channelling Hamilton and we do not know about it, you are wrong.

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They sure in the **** weren't talking about Russia. The British tried to buy support through titles and land. Madison offered it as foreign powers but the context was clearly England...at the time. But by adhering to it throughout our history, it is almost unthinkable for a US representative to accept an land or title from a foreign power.

Vadinho said:

I see. You want my tax money but not my vote. You want my contribution to our nation in every way but my vote. I got it. You are an elite voter, I am not. In fact, your vote is so important that we give it more power then my vote. Why? Because you are a real Murican, a man who represents the real Murica, the salt of the earth, the lily white underbelly of all that is good and proper and righteous. You are Mayberry RFD, we are Fast Times at Ridgemont High. I get it, you are truly a special person. Our nation needs you to make decisions, not me or my fellow Californians. Just let us create the worlds entertainment, the technology, the food, the next new paradigm shift but do not, under any circumstances, let us have the same voting power as you. Why? Because you are special.

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You vote for Senators, do the people that voted for the party that lost have no vote? How about national and state representatives?

Spare us the California does everything spiel, its just not true. It could be argued California has a good deal more voting power because they hold so many delegates.

OpportunityCost said:

If I had any integrity? You rephrase this nonsense and I MIGHT reply to you. Mind you damn manners.

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Nevermind, I have given up expecting either integrity or sense from your posts. Don't expect any further responses. Be well, and mind the door.

NWRatCon said:

Nevermind, I have given up expecting either integrity or sense from your posts. Don't expect any further responses. Be well, and mind the door.

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Between the three of you, the personal remarks have been flying, maybe just stick to the topic.