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What are Inalienable Rights?

Xelor said:
DoI -- Rhetorical flourish
Constitution
  • Last I looked, the Constitution says nothing about the inalienability of rights, nor does it declare as inalienable any right.
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The Constitution is full of rights.

Right to free speech, religion, bear arms, to not incriminate yourself, right to assembly...

Have you never read it ?
 
Evilroddy said:
Vadhino:

Yes, Paine was so influential that the British wanted to lock him up. I have read Common Sense and The Rights of Man. Unfortunately he was too uncompromising for the founding fathers so his influence on the Republic and the US Constitution was limited to an indirect one.

Cheers.
Evilroddy.
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I have all of his books as well. He was truly a man of high integrity and deep compassion for the rights of the everyday person. It is a shame our nation does not cover him as thoroughly as it should, his pamphlets were the key political messages that convinced the people to overthrow the King and form a new nation. He kept it up in France too, drove the monarchists nuts.
 
Rich2018 said:
And where are any of those "rights" stated ?
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I use the same form of argument as you do whenever I see this subject pop up. The truth is that there is no comprehensive and exclusive list of inalienable rights anywhere. The Universal Declaration of Human Rights is the closest anyone has come to defining them. When Christians say these rights are endowed by their creator, they fail to grasp that nothing in the Bible mentions them either. To me, they are a philosophical idea based upon the ever changing human value system that attempts to treat every human being the same under the law regardless of race, status, citizenship, gender, sexual identity and so on. If a right is indeed inalienable, then one has to grant that right to every single human being on the planet because the very core of this concept is humanity by virtue of our consciousness and ability to reason.
 
marke said:
Inalienable rights come from God and cannot be revoked, marginalized, overturned, overruled or dismissed by men.
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Since most of the philosophers and learned men of the 1700s were religious, they did write about rights as a form of gift from God to mankind. However, in modern times we have supplanted the notion of God being the source of these rights by the notion that mankind by virtue of being human deserves, no demands, that states, nations and governments acknowledge their humanity by granting them inalienable rights. There is no longer a need for God as the source since God no longer commands the authority and domination God once had over mankind. There is no written record or proof that God had anything positive to add to this debate, God was absent for hundreds of thousands of years in regards to this concept.
 
Vadinho said:
Since most of the philosophers and learned men of the 1700s were religious, they did write about rights as a form of gift from God to mankind. However, in modern times we have supplanted the notion of God being the source of these rights by the notion that mankind by virtue of being human deserves, no demands, that states, nations and governments acknowledge their humanity by granting them inalienable rights. There is no longer a need for God as the source since God no longer commands the authority and domination God once had over mankind. There is no written record or proof that God had anything positive to add to this debate, God was absent for hundreds of thousands of years in regards to this concept.
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You may feel you no longer need God but that does nothing to stop Christians from holding fast their inalienable rights from God.
 
marke said:
You may feel you no longer need God but that does nothing to stop Christians from holding fast their inalienable rights from God.
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It really has no bearing on the issue at all whether or not one believes in God. These ideas were outgrowths of men considering the emerging concept of natural rights back in the Enlightenment Period. Since those thinkers had no access to knowledge we now possess such as cosmology, physics, biology, evolution, genetics and so on, they get a pass on thinking that some Creator was the source of humanities humanity. We know better now, all of us are just very smart animals, no God needed.
 
marke said:
Inalienable rights come from God and cannot be revoked, marginalized, overturned, overruled or dismissed by men.
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This is the usual platitude that fails to shed any light.

I'm coming to the conclusion that "rights" are the result of negotiation between a society and its citizens, and rights somehow get turned into laws.
 
Vadinho said:
It really has no bearing on the issue at all whether or not one believes in God. These ideas were outgrowths of men considering the emerging concept of natural rights back in the Enlightenment Period. Since those thinkers had no access to knowledge we now possess such as cosmology, physics, biology, evolution, genetics and so on, they get a pass on thinking that some Creator was the source of humanities humanity. We know better now, all of us are just very smart animals, no God needed.
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Nobody needs other people's concepts of God or no God to know what liberties God has given him that are not dependent on human acceptance or approval.
 
TDGonDP said:
This is the usual platitude that fails to shed any light.

I'm coming to the conclusion that "rights" are the result of negotiation between a society and its citizens, and rights somehow get turned into laws.
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The U.S. Constitution gives Americans the right to own guns. God gives Christians the right to use them if necessary to defend the helpless from godless atheistic barbarians seeking to harm the innocent by cruel oppression and violence.
 
marke said:
Nobody needs other people's concepts of God or no God to know what liberties God has given him that are not dependent on human acceptance or approval.
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I have no idea what this means but you are free to believe a God did something for you. I prefer to rely upon human beings, I know they are real.
 
Vadinho said:
I use the same form of argument as you do whenever I see this subject pop up. The truth is that there is no comprehensive and exclusive list of inalienable rights anywhere. The Universal Declaration of Human Rights is the closest anyone has come to defining them. When Christians say these rights are endowed by their creator, they fail to grasp that nothing in the Bible mentions them either. To me, they are a philosophical idea based upon the ever changing human value system that attempts to treat every human being the same under the law regardless of race, status, citizenship, gender, sexual identity and so on. If a right is indeed inalienable, then one has to grant that right to every single human being on the planet because the very core of this concept is humanity by virtue of our consciousness and ability to reason.
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I agree but the bottom line is that these Human Rights, were still determined by men.

And only exist in a real sense in countries where governments have enshrined them into law.
 
Rich2018 said:
I agree but the bottom line is that these Human Rights, were still determined by men.

And only exist in a real sense in countries where governments have enshrined them into law.
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Could not agree more. These rights are philosophical in nature, legal in practice.
 
Rich2018 said:
I agree but the bottom line is that these Human Rights, were still determined by men.

And only exist in a real sense in countries where governments have enshrined them into law.
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Well said. I've been looking for these words when discussing rights with people who believe they come from God.
 
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