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Thread: Emergency/No Emergency

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    Re: Emergency/No Emergency

    Quote Originally Posted by Rexedgar View Post
    Kal, the numbers bandied about are all over the map. 1000 a day, your number is 2000 a day. This Administration is all over numbers as well. This Administration had a majority in Congress for two years and now it is deemed a crisis?I am not for open borders, but I have yet to see a “concrete” plan. Which prototype does he like where? What about private land? Who will be hired to construct this wall? “The Wall” has become a rallying slogan. The latest 5.something billion is going to be spent how?
    Okay, let's keep it simple. Are these people crossing the border legal or illegal? Just answer that.
    "He who does not think himself worth saving from poverty and ignorance by his own efforts, will hardly be thought worth the efforts of anybody else." -- Frederick Douglass, Self-Made Men (1872)
    "Fly-over" country voted, and The Donald is now POTUS. #MAGA

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    Re: Emergency/No Emergency

    Quote Originally Posted by American View Post
    Okay, let's keep it simple. Are these people crossing the border legal or illegal? Just answer that.
    Musta slept in today, these drive-by posts usually show up earlier................
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    Re: Emergency/No Emergency

    Quote Originally Posted by Rexedgar View Post
    What constitutes a “national emergency?” Trump pretty much states that a “national emergency” is contingent on whether he gets his way or not. If he cannot “get it done” any other way? Can an emergency be based on how the opposition party votes?

    To those who know the Constitution better than I, is he on solid ground stating he has the “right” to declare an “emergency?”
    Don't forget, this is the guy who estimated the worth of his name by the mood he was in.

    Thanks asshole Republicans.

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    Re: Emergency/No Emergency

    Quote Originally Posted by Kal'Stang View Post
    Trump definitely does things his way. And I often don't agree with how he approaches and gets things done, even if I do agree with him on the fact that the thing he wants done needs done.

    And yep, I'm FAR away from the southern border. Right next to the Canadian border in fact.
    If you really want to see this wall, tell Republicans to come up with a decent proposal for this wall. Right now Trump is asking for $5.7B for what? A fence? A wall? Slats? Where will this "barrier" be? Will it cover the entire border, or only on federal lands where there will be no eminent domain? We have almost zero details for this thing, and they want $5.7B of tax-payer money -- or money we need to borrow from China -- to fund it?

    Come back when you have some plans. Republicans suck at proposals on everything that is not about cutting taxes (then they still suck in the delivery).

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    Re: Emergency/No Emergency

    I think this topic is going to be one that's debated many times here. I plan to rely solely on information provided by Neal Katyal who is the former Acting Solicitor General of the U.S. He has argued the biggest cases on emergency powers in the 21st century at the Supreme Court. Neal Katyal is also one of the foremost legal experts in the country regarding the use of presidential emergency powers. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neal_Katyal

    As Katyal states, there are two points here. The first point is whether this is a genuine emergency. The only legitimate emergency Trump can point to is that he didn't get his way. Conservatives and liberals alike should be concerned about Trump's extravagant claim about 'emergency' because imagine if you can, a future Democratic president saying 'gun violence kills a lot of people and I can prove that fact', unlike these fake statistics that Trump is patch-working together about illegal immigration. So that president just declares a state of emergency banning guns. The system our founders lefts us with is one in which Congress makes these calls, not the president.

    The second point, and this is the most important, is what does this say about the president? It is really remarkable that he would be asserting this emergency power because if he asserts it there is no other choice but for the democrats to begin impeachment proceedings and would be joined by a lot of republicans at the end of the day.

    Neal Katyal's final opinion is that he believes that Trump may actually want to be impeached. He believes this because essential Trump has no agenda left, his agenda is basically twitter and 'the wall'. He acts like a snowflake and claims to be the victim all the time and an impeachment proceeding would allow him to make that cry even more. "As a matter of law, as a matter of policy, I think this is a very damaging thing for Donald Trump and for the country."
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    Re: Emergency/No Emergency

    An emergency is vague according to the law but it also must make constitutional sense. Trump said that 'if the Congress doesn't pass funding for the wall, I will declare an emergency and do it myself.' That is an admission that building the wall isn't an emergency -- or it should have been the first act done. It also doesn't make logical sense that a wall, that will take years to build, is an emergency simply because Congress refuses to provide the executive with funding -- which is their Article I authority.

    Which leads us into constitutional territory. The president simply cannot declare anything that the Congress won't fund an "emergency," giving him/her the authority to move on it like a bitch.

    Then, according to the governing Act, Congress can vote to remove the emergency and the president doesn't get a chance to veto it. Thus, if Trump decides to declare an emergency, the Congress can vote to rescind the emergency.
    "I never meant to say that the Conservatives are generally stupid. I meant to say that stupid people are generally Conservative. I believe that is so obviously and universally admitted a principle that I hardly think any gentleman will deny it." --J.S. Mill

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    Re: Emergency/No Emergency

    Quote Originally Posted by Kal'Stang View Post
    Now to answer your question as it regards the Wall and him using his Emergency Powers to build it.

    I don't honestly know.

    While I personally might view 60k per month of illegals attempting to enter our country illegally as a crisis this does not mean that Congress or the law will see it as such.

    Trump is going to have to prove that there is an emergency based off of what is in existing law. I do not know the law well enough to know if there is a provision in existing law that allows for the type of emergency that Trump is referring to. If he can't then he has no standing to declare this an emergency and will be shot down by the courts.

    If however he can tie it to existing law then he can declare an emergency and the courts (assuming no bias getting involved which frankly now a days I doubt) will not shoot him down.

    However if Congress disagree's with Trump and regardless if he can tie it to existing law, Congress can over ride it with a simple majority vote and a Presidential signature OR with a 2/3rds vote that will over ride Trumps ability to Veto.
    Not on this, they can’t overturn!


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    Re: Emergency/No Emergency

    Quote Originally Posted by Kal'Stang View Post
    Yes, as POTUS he has the power to declare an emergency. (The government does not have "rights").

    As for what constitutes an "emergency"....well....that can be subjective.

    IMO......

    According to DHS roughly 30k people per month are apprehended trying to cross into the US. The government also bases how many illegal aliens are in the country on how many people are apprehended at the border. So essentially we have 60k people trying to enter the US illegally every month with half of them being caught and the other half making it into the US undetected. Is this less than in previous years? Yes it is. Does that mean its not a crisis? Nope. If a town gets fully flooded one year and then the next 2 years only 3/4ths of the town gets flooded and then the next 3 years it only gets half flooded that does not mean that it still cannot to be considered a crisis. 60k people attempting to enter the US monthly which adds up to 720k per year with half of that succeeding is most definitely a crisis.
    why is that a crisis? they are people, working... are we afraid of them working? and then buying our stuff? where is the crisis? Where's the danger?

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    Re: Emergency/No Emergency

    Quote Originally Posted by ttwtt78640 View Post
    The national emergency POTUS power is not in the constitution at all - it is in a law passed by congress in 1976.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nati...mergencies_Act
    Which brings up a good question, Does Congress have the power to grant the POTUS powers not defined in Article 2 of the Constitution. In my opinion, NO, for the powers of all 3 branches of the government are defined within the Constitution, for Congress to add to or take way from those powers would require a change in the Constitution and Congress does not that the power to amend the Constitution via legislation.
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    Re: Emergency/No Emergency

    There will be a true Constitutional crisis if Trump puts a 'national emergency' into effect. it will be immediately challenged legally and reversed by Congress until some time the courts decide on the legality of it. Very little about presidential power is supposed to be absolute.

    Trump's own words might not help his case. He said that declaring an emergency would come “if I can’t make a deal” rather than because of the 'crisis' situation on the border. This is proof of what his motivation for declaring a national emergency is, it's because he didn't get his way. For Trump to so transparently abuse the emergency discretion granted by statute, and for Congress to agree to that abuse, is an exceptionally serious signal of serious structural and Constitutional breakdown.
    "The further a society drifts from the truth, the more it will hate those that speak it"
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