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The 2nd Amendment is Archaic, change my mind

ryzorsden said:
Title says it all my new friends. I am a firm believer that the 2nd Amendment as it is written is no longer feasible in 2018 America.

Thoughts?
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I disagree... and I find your opinion is a product of growing up in a bubble of peace for the last 70 years.

I don't think people with your opinion know the gravity of human civilizations potential for extreme violence and how quickly it can all completely go down the tubes.

History has proven... that peace is rare. Totalitarian, authoritarian governments are abundant. And they can arise within a blink of an eye. Everything about our civilization and government is fake... it is 100% up to the good hearts of everyone around us. Tomorrow... we can all just decide to stop following the rules and there is literally nothing anyone can do to stop it. We are always existing in a state of anarchy.

Letting the government have a monopoly on guns and weapons gives rise to an inevitability for that power to be abused, it results in a government that has zero consequence to it's people. One day, all anyone would have to do is pull the right strings and immediately have total armed totalitarian control over the populace.... and there would be little to nothing anyone could do about it. The first thing totalitarian regimes do once they get in power is ban guns from civilians.

One argument I often hear in retort to this is, " What do you expect to do with your guns? Do you really think you can take on the U.S. military who has nukes, bombs, tanks, etc.?".

Really start to think about your question...Nuking your own country you want to rule isn't good strategy. Are all the troops going to stay faithful if they are gunning down and bombing their own citizens? Their own families?
The United States military had issues with random people from the year 800AD with AKs living in caves... what could the educated and armed populace of the USA do? An infinitely better job... They have built all the infrastructure, some have built freaking nuclear reactors in their backyards, some have more experience with American military equipment than any Iraqi.
If it ever came to that, Armed civilian resistance in the USA has a chance.... a good chance. Especially if the totalitarians had any friends or families they ever cared about... because they would all be gone.... or locked in a bunker for the rest of their lives.

Without guns, they would have no chance.... zero.

We live in a bubble... it must feel impossible that would ever happen in the USA... but it could happen very easy... and very quickly.


A Completely separate argument I have...

Guns exist... no ifs ands or butts.... there will ALWAYS be criminals with a gun.... always. You can try to drastically reduce the number, but in the end there will always be some criminals who will illegally own or use a gun.

When a criminal has a gun... and the are outlawed... He can literally just walk into ANY house, and do whatever he wanted with any family. There would be... absolutely nothing they could do.

I don't know if you have a family or not, but can you really look in a fathers or mothers eyes and say... "A criminal can walk into your house and rape your daughters with a gun, and there is nothing you will be able to do about it but watch."
And it's sad to say, there are people who have had to live in this situation exactly due to Anti gun laws.

If you do not have a gun, your are completely defenseless against someone who does have a gun.

You have a natural born RIGHT to be able to defend yourself and your family in these situations. It is fundamentally impossible to defend yourself from these situations without a gun.... or at the very least, it's the only reasonably economically friendly way to defend yourself.
 
calamity said:
The failure is you not citing anything to back up the hot air coming out of your butt.
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And again.
Another failure by you.
You were already directed to it by another.
I do not have to redirect you to it.​
Which of course just makes you wrong as usual.

And that supposed butt air you are smelling, get a clue, it is coming from your own mouth.
 
celticwar17 said:
I disagree... and I find your opinion is a product of growing up in a bubble of peace for the last 70 years.

I don't think people with your opinion know the gravity of human civilizations potential for extreme violence and how quickly it can all completely go down the tubes.

History has proven... that peace is rare. Totalitarian, authoritarian governments are abundant. And they can arise within a blink of an eye. Everything about our civilization and government is fake... it is 100% up to the good hearts of everyone around us. Tomorrow... we can all just decide to stop following the rules and there is literally nothing anyone can do to stop it. We are always existing in a state of anarchy.

Letting the government have a monopoly on guns and weapons gives rise to an inevitability for that power to be abused, it results in a government that has zero consequence to it's people. One day, all anyone would have to do is pull the right strings and immediately have total armed totalitarian control over the populace.... and there would be little to nothing anyone could do about it. The first thing totalitarian regimes do once they get in power is ban guns from civilians.

One argument I often hear in retort to this is, " What do you expect to do with your guns? Do you really think you can take on the U.S. military who has nukes, bombs, tanks, etc.?".

Really start to think about your question...Nuking your own country you want to rule isn't good strategy. Are all the troops going to stay faithful if they are gunning down and bombing their own citizens? Their own families?
The United States military had issues with random people from the year 800AD with AKs living in caves... what could the educated and armed populace of the USA do? An infinitely better job... They have built all the infrastructure, some have built freaking nuclear reactors in their backyards, some have more experience with American military equipment than any Iraqi.
If it ever came to that, Armed civilian resistance in the USA has a chance.... a good chance. Especially if the totalitarians had any friends or families they ever cared about... because they would all be gone.... or locked in a bunker for the rest of their lives.

Without guns, they would have no chance.... zero.

We live in a bubble... it must feel impossible that would ever happen in the USA... but it could happen very easy... and very quickly.


A Completely separate argument I have...

Guns exist... no ifs ands or butts.... there will ALWAYS be criminals with a gun.... always. You can try to drastically reduce the number, but in the end there will always be some criminals who will illegally own or use a gun.

When a criminal has a gun... and the are outlawed... He can literally just walk into ANY house, and do whatever he wanted with any family. There would be... absolutely nothing they could do.

I don't know if you have a family or not, but can you really look in a fathers or mothers eyes and say... "A criminal can walk into your house and rape your daughters with a gun, and there is nothing you will be able to do about it but watch."
And it's sad to say, there are people who have had to live in this situation exactly due to Anti gun laws.

If you do not have a gun, your are completely defenseless against someone who does have a gun.

You have a natural born RIGHT to be able to defend yourself and your family in these situations. It is fundamentally impossible to defend yourself from these situations without a gun.... or at the very least, it's the only reasonably economically friendly way to defend yourself.
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First and foremost, the majority of military members (I imagine) are right-leaning. I'd imagine they would have no problem drone-striking leftists trying to overthrow the government with AR-15s.

Secondly, your appeal to "what if you had to watch your daughter get raped" is the typical right-wing cliche used to justify owning guns. The CDC proved in 1993 that having guns in your home makes it more likely you will shoot yourself or a family member than you will an intruder. In fact, the right-wing nightmare (or dream) scenario is shooting an intruder that invades your home. This happens less than a dozen times a year in a nation with hundreds of millions of guns and people in it. You're better off playing the lottery.

Valiant effort, but you failed to change my mind.
 
ryzorsden said:
First and foremost, the majority of military members (I imagine) are right-leaning. I'd imagine they would have no problem drone-striking leftists trying to overthrow the government with AR-15s.

Secondly, your appeal to "what if you had to watch your daughter get raped" is the typical right-wing cliche used to justify owning guns. The CDC proved in 1993 that having guns in your home makes it more likely you will shoot yourself or a family member than you will an intruder. In fact, the right-wing nightmare (or dream) scenario is shooting an intruder that invades your home. This happens less than a dozen times a year in a nation with hundreds of millions of guns and people in it. You're better off playing the lottery.

Valiant effort, but you failed to change my mind.
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You cannot morally justify people to not be able to to take their own fate in their hands. Percentages and likelihoods mean nothing. You are more likely to be run over by a car if you go outside or drive a car... that doesn't mean you should always stay inside.

You are 100% defenseless against a person with a gun if you have no gun. That is a fact. You did not address my points whatsoever. You cannot ask someone to leave themselves open to that situation, they have a right to defend themselves.

And as far as right wingers in the military... things change dude... that was entirely part of my point which you seem to completely ignore. This can change instantly. Right wingers have just as much chance of becoming authoritarian as leftists.

exhausting...:roll:
 
jmotivator said:
Hey, I agree with you on that last point!
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Damn any media that criticizes Trump

Fox News is the torch bearer of the enlightenment !


...but essentially you are looking for a place where you don't have to work and still get everything you could possibly want....
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How on Earth do you reason that ?


What one single item listed by the Washington Post argues for anything like that?


It seems you're OK with the US Government spending tens of billions on defense to "protect" us but not on medicare.
 
celticwar17 said:
You cannot morally justify people to not be able to to take their own fate in their hands. Percentages and likelihoods mean nothing. You are more likely to be run over by a car if you go outside or drive a car... that doesn't mean you should always stay inside.

You are 100% defenseless against a person with a gun if you have no gun. That is a fact. You did not address my points whatsoever. You cannot ask someone to leave themselves open to that situation, they have a right to defend themselves.

And as far as right wingers in the military... things change dude... that was entirely part of my point which you seem to completely ignore. This can change instantly. Right wingers have just as much chance of becoming authoritarian as leftists.

exhausting...:roll:
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You have a right to a gun if....big if....you meet certain criteria. Otherwise you do not
 
Master PO said:
fact!

i will give you a simple test.


you wish to own a firearm, however you cannot find anyone that wishes to sell you one...... where is your right now?
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Then I make one. You lose. Lol
 
Master PO said:
you have a right to seek a firearm for purchase or trade, and to bare that firearm as being property
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Are you saying I dont have the right to make a gun?

Go ahead....say it. Lol
 
Master PO said:
no you did, to imply you have a right to a firearm, would imply you have a right to material goods and services.
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It's ok buddy. You lost. I can make one


Hahahahaha
 
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