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Democracy V Republic

But a constitutional republic is a form of democracy...specifically a form of representative democracy.

No, it's two completely different concepts. A Democracy is where everyone can vote on everything. The People are the government. A Constitutional Republic is when The People elect their gov't and trust those elected officials to carry out their wishes, while conforming to the Constitution. The only thing they have in common is voting.
 
There has not been a true democracy since ancient greece for a state, though numerous tribes in europe have tried it in regions during roman times. Democracy is a failed idea, it is always the majority voting to oppress the minority. A republic is representative democracy, it takes the better ideas of democracy but adds a direct layer between the people and the laws, but also holds govt more accountable to the people.

It is not the most ideal system, but it is the best of what we have, and has done better at protecting minorities than other systems have excluding some dictatorships, however minority protection is not uniform among dictatorships either.

A benevolent dictatorship is by far the most effective form of gov't. It has the obvious problem that finding a benevolent dictator is almost impossible. Probably the closest we've seen in the modern age was Tito and "benevolent" would be a pretty tough stretch.
 
A democracy has minimal govt, usually those who run the military control trade and emergency power of martial law, otherwise in a true democracy all laws are voted by the people instead of the govt, which often leads to oppression against minorities. A representative democracy has it's laws made by senators, often with an executive, and representatives, each country has a different way of doing it, like some use a senate and some use a parliament, but the laws are made by people who represent others, and those representatives are voted on by the people.

Another thing is excluding the us very few representative democracies have the people elect their head of state, but rather they elect representatives and the elected elect the head of state, exception being france and a few third world countries being the only other states with direct head of state elections, while the united states elects it's president indirectly but still through the people.

You were doing great until that very last word. It's not The People who elect the President, it's the States.
 
The USA, at least in theory, is both a republic and a representative democracy. In reality it is a republic and an oligarchy controlled by networks of powerful people, organisations and business interests who both oppose and thwart democratic expression in America. However there is also a powerful populist tradition which opposes such oligarchy but has been unable to stop it. The republic is also cracking under the weight of a highly militarised and very expensive state and a security and surveillance state which is rapidly curtailing or extinguishing many of the rights and freedoms upon which the USA was based in the service of centralisation of power and run-away statism.

So in theory the USA is both a republic and a representative democracy. In fact it is more of an oligarchy which is faced with a populist political rebellion which rejects oligarchy but is also systematically and serially co-opted by that oligarchy. This process is leading to de facto fascism as a reality of American political life and the destruction of the republic and the principles for which it stands.

Cheers?
Evilroddy.

There is no such thing as a "representative democracy". If you are electing people to run things, then it's called a Republic.
 
Most black/white definitional distinctions between democracy and republic don't hold up historically. The U.S. has been referred to interchangeably as a democracy and a republic since the Framing.

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/democracy
Democracy - "a government in which the supreme power is vested in the people and exercised by them directly or indirectly through a system of representation usually involving periodically held free elections"

Sounds pretty apt.

Even assuming that republic is technically the correct term, because of the rights afforded minorities or whatnot, I think correcting people who describe the U.S. as a democracy is patronizing in casual conversation and a really weak tactic in debate unless the issue itself is what you are debating.

The highlighted text above does NOT describe a Democracy, it describes a Republic.
 
Where do you get these ideas from.

Are you not aware that when the USA was first conceived and its Constitution written, it excluded the majority of the population.

Women, Blacks, Native Americans
Do you really need a list of examples where people in the USA have been legally suppressed ?

This is not to bash the USA, all countries have their flaws but to say people in a constitutional republic have more rights than in say a constitutional monarchy is quite ridiculous.



And you don't need a written constitution to protect rights. Laws do that. The US Constitution is just a collection of laws (albeit the highest law in the land).

So you don't need laws to protect people's rights, you just need laws??? :confused::confused::confused::confused:
 
I had a recent discussion with someone on-line. He is an American and states that the USA is not a Democracy, it is a Constitutional Republic.

On YouTube there are a number of videos saying that Democracy is different (and usually inferior) to a Republic.

Are there any US members who actually agree with this ?


For the record I said that a Republic is a form of Democracy (though not all Republics are it is true like the USSR, DDR, PRC, Saddam's Iraq etc)


Thoughts ?

A constitutional republic is a form of democracy
/end thread
 
There has not been a true democracy since ancient greece for a state, though numerous tribes in europe have tried it in regions during roman times. Democracy is a failed idea, it is always the majority voting to oppress the minority. A republic is representative democracy, it takes the better ideas of democracy but adds a direct layer between the people and the laws, but also holds govt more accountable to the people.

It is not the most ideal system, but it is the best of what we have, and has done better at protecting minorities than other systems have excluding some dictatorships, however minority protection is not uniform among dictatorships either.

Thank you.
I am so tired of seeing this hashed and rehashed for no good reason.
Why is there no good reason? Because, as beer just pointed out, there aren't any existing examples of a pure or direct democracy and never have been beyond the small handful of ancient examples.
Democracy in its pure form is like oxygen. Mammals do not breathe pure oxygen, they breathe a specific mixture of gases of which oxygen makes up about 21 percent here on Earth. The oxygen we breathe is "buffered" in a mixture of other gases, all working in balance.

And likewise, here on Earth pure democracy does not exist but rather, a republic, consitutional or otherwise, will enshrine democratic representation into the framework. Thus all applications of democracy are "buffered" by operating in a framework, and that framework usually winds up being a republic.

Some British people use slang in referring to their cars as a "motor", but that doesn't mean that British cars only consist of a motor and nothing else, it means that the "motor" operates inside of the chassis of a motor vehicle, a CAR.

Thus, when someone says that "America is a democracy", they aren't saying that it's a direct democracy.
Thus the argument that "America is not a democracy" is pure nonsense.

Anyone with any critical thinking skills knows that the democracy operates in this country via elected representatives.
They also know that all cars have some kind of motor, thus if you hear a Brit say that they love to drive their motor, it can safely be assumed that they aren't saying that they like to sit astride a running engine, it means they like to drive their MOTOR-CAR.

And this whole "America is not a democracy" trope is just more nonsense from groups which seek to marginalize the importance OF democracy. And some of those groups have a specific reason: Some groups intend to replace democracy with theocracy.
To do that, one first needs to soften up the target, perhaps by mumbling the same tropes repeatedly over a period of decades, so that others get used to hearing that "America is not a democracy".

Uhhhh, YEAH...it IS a democracy.
Yeah, it's a constitutional republic, but it operates as a framework which contains representative democracy.
 
people often fear and hate that which they do not understand.

And this thread clearly shows that many right wingers do not understand democracy
 
Difference being that in a Constitutional Republic individual people have Rights. Other forms of democracy are generally more about tyranny of the majority.

What other forms?
 
A benevolent dictatorship is by far the most effective form of gov't. It has the obvious problem that finding a benevolent dictator is almost impossible. Probably the closest we've seen in the modern age was Tito and "benevolent" would be a pretty tough stretch.


Effective at what ?

What's you're criteria for "effective government" ?
 
The highlighted text above does NOT describe a Democracy, it describes a Republic.


Mr Noah Webster himself referred to the USA as a Representative Democracy


Out of interest, do you know what the lower house of the Congress of the USA is properly known as ?
 
Did. I agree with Peterson and the lawyer Mr. Brown.

Well there opinion is not founded in reality and outside the scope of bill which just makes transgendered people a protect group from being used in the scope of making it illegal for speech that would call for sentence violence against them.

I mean freedom is not a zero sum game, some limitations doesn't mean an end to free speech. Unless your an anarchist.
 
Well there opinion is not founded in reality and outside the scope of bill which just makes transgendered people a protect group from being used in the scope of making it illegal for speech that would call for sentence violence against them.

I mean freedom is not a zero sum game, some limitations doesn't mean an end to free speech. Unless your an anarchist.

Alright, next time you run into someone that prefers to be called Zed (or any of the other millions of the other "preferred pronouns"), refuse to call them that, call them he or she, him or her.
 
The highlighted text above does NOT describe a Democracy, it describes a Republic.
Um, ok, well merriam-webster disagrees with you.

As do the Cambridge and Oxford dictionaries.
https://dictionary.cambridge.org/us/dictionary/english/democracy
https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/democracy

As did many of the Framers.

To the extent there is an accepted and historically consistent difference between the terms, it has to do with limitations on the authority of the majority to rule/protections for minorities.
 
I had a recent discussion with someone on-line. He is an American and states that the USA is not a Democracy, it is a Constitutional Republic.

On YouTube there are a number of videos saying that Democracy is different (and usually inferior) to a Republic.

Are there any US members who actually agree with this ?


For the record I said that a Republic is a form of Democracy (though not all Republics are it is true like the USSR, DDR, PRC, Saddam's Iraq etc)


Thoughts ?

Yes, a Constitutional Republic is far superior to a democracy.

The above answer is correct, superior because it eliminates mob rule and rights and freedoms are much more protected/concrete

i think where people get confused is that democracy exists among a constitutional republic . . . .we have democratic processes but its not complete democratic rule
 
We pledge alligence not to a Democracy, but to the Republic, for witch it stands



Is that the wicked one of the East or the wicked one of the West ?

British soldiers swear an oath of allegiance to the monarch, not to the representative democracy of the UK or the constitutional monarchy form of government.


No-one is arguing that the USA isn't a republic, it is.
A constitutional republic is the form of representative democracy found in the USA.
 
The above answer is correct, superior because it eliminates mob rule and rights and freedoms are much more protected/concrete

i think where people get confused is that democracy exists among a constitutional republic . . . .we have democratic processes but its not complete democratic rule

You are confused.

The USA is a Democracy
The type of democracy in the USA is a Representative Democracy - the public elect people to serve int eh legislature. The lower house is called the "House of Representatives"
The form of representative democracy in the USA is a Constitutional Republic.


It beggars belief that anyone can think a "Democratic" process exists anywhere except within a Democracy.


As to your last point, yes having a formal constitution does make it harder to change some laws (in a Constitutional Republic) ... then again if a Constitutional Monarchy (such as the UK) had a formal constitution, the same would be same of the UK.
 
You are confused.

The USA is a Democracy
The type of democracy in the USA is a Representative Democracy - the public elect people to serve int eh legislature. The lower house is called the "House of Representatives"
The form of representative democracy in the USA is a Constitutional Republic.


It beggars belief that anyone can think a "Democratic" process exists anywhere except within a Democracy.


As to your last point, yes having a formal constitution does make it harder to change some laws (in a Constitutional Republic) ... then again if a Constitutional Monarchy (such as the UK) had a formal constitution, the same would be same of the UK.

Not confused at all what i stated remains true and nothing you said changes it. We are not a democracy alone and saying otherwise is completely false. Can 51% of the people vote right now to make rape legal? bring back slaves? nope. therefore any claims we are a democracy is simply wrong by defintion.

here this will help your confusion
https://legaldictionary.net/constitutional-republic/

Constitutional Republic vs. Democracy
Some believe that the United States is a democracy, but it is actually the perfect example of a constitutional republic. A pure democracy would be a form of government in which the leaders, while elected by the people, are not constrained by a constitution as to its actions. In a republic, however, elected officials cannot take away or violate certain rights of the people. The Pledge of Allegiance, which was written in 1892 and adopted by Congress in 1942 as the official pledge, even makes reference to the fact that the U.S. is a republic: “I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America, and to the Republic, for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.” [emphasis added]Despite the fact that most countries claim that “democracy” is their main goal, most countries govern as republics. However, not all republics are the same; with some, for instance, operating under a president (like the U.S.), and others operating under a parliament (the U.K.), in which the people elect a legislative branch that then decides the executive branch. Even some monarchies operate as republics, despite having royalty as their heads of state.

theres also a nice chart to help you
 
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