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Democracy V Republic

Rich2018 said:
Depends.


If you're speaking honestly, then you're fine.


If you're trying to stir up hate, then you're not.



Freedom of Expression has its limits.
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And THAT right there is why the US is far and away better than the UK or Canada when it comes to Rights. It is also the difference between a Constitutional Republic where individual Rights are protected and a parliamentary system that Canada and a parliamentary monarch system that the UK has.

Tell me..who gets to determine what is and isn't offensive speech?
 
Kal'Stang said:
And THAT right there is why the US is far and away better than the UK or Canada when it comes to Rights. It is also the difference between a Constitutional Republic where individual Rights are protected and a parliamentary system that Canada and a parliamentary monarch system that the UK has.

Tell me..who gets to determine what is and isn't offensive speech?
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So you think that being allowed to incite violence and hatred is a good thing ?
(Which you're not Btw)

Germany is a Constitutional Republic - try making a speech there promoting racism or inciting violence



In answer to your question: The Judiciary decide what's offensive and whether it contravenes the law.
 
Rich2018 said:
So you think that being allowed to incite violence and hatred is a good thing ?
(Which you're not Btw)

Germany is a Constitutional Republic - try making a speech there promoting racism or inciting violence



In answer to your question: The Judiciary decide what's offensive and whether it contravenes the law.
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Inciting violence is not a good thing and is against the law. Inciting hatred? Name me a politician that doesn't attempt to do that against the opposing side.

No, Germany is a federal parliamentary republic. Not a constitutional one.

Re: Judges: Oh yay...so some people in robes gets to decide what others may say or not say and the whims of those people will change as the years go on. Yeah....no thanks.
 
Rich2018 said:
I had a recent discussion with someone on-line. He is an American and states that the USA is not a Democracy, it is a Constitutional Republic.

On YouTube there are a number of videos saying that Democracy is different (and usually inferior) to a Republic.

Are there any US members who actually agree with this ?


For the record I said that a Republic is a form of Democracy (though not all Republics are it is true like the USSR, DDR, PRC, Saddam's Iraq etc)


Thoughts ?
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The US is a constitutional federal republic representative democracy.
 
Kal'Stang said:
Difference being that in a Constitutional Republic individual people have Rights. Other forms of democracy are generally more about tyranny of the majority.
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What a load of bull****.

A constitutional republic is a democracy period and people have rights as stated in that constitution.

Now the US has more in common with the Peoples Republic of North Korea than an actual republic or democracy, since in the US it is the MINORITY that rules the country at present. What has happened in the US the last few decades is spitting directly in the face of freedom loving democracies world wide.. since the founding principle of any democracy and yes any republic, is that the one with most votes wins.

Of course it is the right wing in the US that are promoting the absolutely idiotic idea that there is a difference between a democracy and the US republic, because it is the only real justification they have in what they are doing and have been doing for decades... corrupting the system in such massive ways that it is rigged fully in their favour. That is why they defend the electoral college despite it obviously being flawed and broken.
 
Rich2018 said:
I had a recent discussion with someone online. He is an American and states that the USA is not a Democracy, it is the Constitutional Republic.

On YouTube, there are a number of videos saying that Democracy is different (and usually inferior) to a Republic.

Are there any US members who actually agree with this?
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By the strictest definition the United States elects representatives, and then those representatives make the decisions for us. The people don't vote on every bill and make every decision, and there are things put in place to ensure the majority can't easily get it's way all the time. So, in theory, that's technically a Republic, and there are definitely benefits to that over a strict democracy, but by that definition of democracy, I'm not sure one has ever realistically existed. The United States is about as close to a Democracy as there has ever been to my knowledge.

The thing to understand is that governing, and making law is a full-time job, and expecting the population to fully understand the details and ramifications of complicated pieces of legislation isn't realistic. We saw in states like California that tried a more direct democracy for a while that it came with all kinds of problems because voters would try and have their cake and eat it too. They'd pass a bill that would increase funding for education, then pass a bill that cut taxes apparently not realizing you can't do both.

More often than not though people(usually Republicans) who want to point out that we have a republic not a democracy just want to do it to justify the reality that the majority of Americans ****ing hate the **** bag they elected.
 
Rich2018 said:
Where do you get these ideas from.

Are you not aware that when the USA was first conceived and its Constitution written, it excluded the majority of the population.

Women, Blacks, Native Americans
Do you really need a list of examples where people in the USA have been legally suppressed ?

This is not to bash the USA, all countries have their flaws but to say people in a constitutional republic have more rights than in say a constitutional monarchy is quite ridiculous.


And you don't need a written constitution to protect rights. Laws do that. The US Constitution is just a collection of laws (albeit the highest law in the land).
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Laws can be easily changed, constitutions much more difficult.
 
PeteEU said:
What a load of bull****.

A constitutional republic is a democracy period and people have rights as stated in that constitution.

Now the US has more in common with the Peoples Republic of North Korea than an actual republic or democracy, since in the US it is the MINORITY that rules the country at present. What has happened in the US the last few decades is spitting directly in the face of freedom loving democracies world wide.. since the founding principle of any democracy and yes any republic, is that the one with most votes wins.

Of course it is the right wing in the US that are promoting the absolutely idiotic idea that there is a difference between a democracy and the US republic, because it is the only real justification they have in what they are doing and have been doing for decades... corrupting the system in such massive ways that it is rigged fully in their favour. That is why they defend the electoral college despite it obviously being flawed and broken.
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Wrong, and unsubstantiated. People's Republic of North Korea??? Clearly you don't know what you're saying. You're comparing us to North Korea? Republicans are rigging the system?
 
American said:
Wrong, and unsubstantiated. People's Republic of North Korea??? Clearly you don't know what you're saying. You're comparing us to North Korea? Republicans are rigging the system?
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Unsubstantiated? The only ones that would say such a thing, are those that profit from the status quo. That is clearly the GOP. That is also why some in the GOP have been pushing for giving out electoral college votes based on districts instead of winner takes all.... why? Because they have gerrymandered the districts so massively in the states.. it would flip Pennsylvania massively.. hell it would have put Romney in the White House if that had happened, despite Obama winning the state vote wise. When you have such a party, that goes out of its way to fix elections.. then sorry you are closer to North Korea than the democracies of the world.
 
PeteEU said:
Unsubstantiated? The only ones that would say such a thing, are those that profit from the status quo. That is clearly the GOP. That is also why some in the GOP have been pushing for giving out electoral college votes based on districts instead of winner takes all.... why? Because they have gerrymandered the districts so massively in the states.. it would flip Pennsylvania massively.. hell it would have put Romney in the White House if that had happened, despite Obama winning the state vote wise. When you have such a party, that goes out of its way to fix elections.. then sorry you are closer to North Korea than the democracies of the world.
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You lost when you brought up People's Republic of North Korea. Yeahhhhh, we're just like that. :roll:
 
Kal'Stang said:
Inciting violence is not a good thing and is against the law. Inciting hatred? Name me a politician that doesn't attempt to do that against the opposing side.

No, Germany is a federal parliamentary republic. Not a constitutional one.

Re: Judges: Oh yay...so some people in robes gets to decide what others may say or not say and the whims of those people will change as the years go on. Yeah....no thanks.
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No politician in a civilized country incites hated - the Nazis did that.

I think there a difference between the Nazis and US politicians.

Germany - the Federal Republic of Germany is most definitely a Constitutional Republic. It even has a Constitution (not that you need a formal constitution to be a constitutional republic or constitutional monarchy):


The German Constitution ? German Culture


Yeah judges, the judiciary - the third branch of government
The Supreme Court of the USA the ultimate arbiter of law. (Strange how they're held in esteem when they uphold the 2nd amendent, yet are derided they uphold a judgement that is disagreed with).
Those guys...in robes.
 
Moot said:
The US is a constitutional federal republic representative democracy.
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Agreed:

The USA is a democracy
The type of democracy in the USA is Representative Democracy
The form of Representative Democracy in the USA is a Constitutional Republic
The type of Constitutional Republic in the USA is a Federal Constitutional Republic.
 
PeteEU said:
What a load of bull****.

A constitutional republic is a democracy period and people have rights as stated in that constitution.

Now the US has more in common with the Peoples Republic of North Korea than an actual republic or democracy, since in the US it is the MINORITY that rules the country at present. What has happened in the US the last few decades is spitting directly in the face of freedom loving democracies world wide.. since the founding principle of any democracy and yes any republic, is that the one with most votes wins.

Of course it is the right wing in the US that are promoting the absolutely idiotic idea that there is a difference between a democracy and the US republic, because it is the only real justification they have in what they are doing and have been doing for decades... corrupting the system in such massive ways that it is rigged fully in their favour. That is why they defend the electoral college despite it obviously being flawed and broken.
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This

Well said.
 
Kal'Stang said:
Difference being that in a Constitutional Republic individual people have Rights. Other forms of democracy are generally more about tyranny of the majority.
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How could you argue that we are not ruled by power of majority in America? We actually are... lol
 
American said:
You lost when you brought up People's Republic of North Korea. Yeahhhhh, we're just like that. :roll:
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North Korea is a non-constitutional republic.

(Even if it had a constitution, it doesn't serve the people and there's no representative of them)

The USA is a different kind of republic. It is a CONSTITUTIONAL Republic.
 
PeteEU said:
Unsubstantiated? The only ones that would say such a thing, are those that profit from the status quo. That is clearly the GOP. That is also why some in the GOP have been pushing for giving out electoral college votes based on districts instead of winner takes all.... why? Because they have gerrymandered the districts so massively in the states.. it would flip Pennsylvania massively.. hell it would have put Romney in the White House if that had happened, despite Obama winning the state vote wise. When you have such a party, that goes out of its way to fix elections.. then sorry you are closer to North Korea than the democracies of the world.
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Umm...you do realize its the Democrats that pushed for giving out electoral votes based on districts instead of winner takes all right, after Trump won? There's only two States that I'm aware of does not give a winner take all. Nebraska and Maine. All others are a winner takes all system. You obviously do not know how our system works.
 
Rich2018 said:
I had a recent discussion with someone on-line. He is an American and states that the USA is not a Democracy, it is a Constitutional Republic.

On YouTube there are a number of videos saying that Democracy is different (and usually inferior) to a Republic.

Are there any US members who actually agree with this ?


For the record I said that a Republic is a form of Democracy (though not all Republics are it is true like the USSR, DDR, PRC, Saddam's Iraq etc)


Thoughts ?
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The defining difference is inalienable rights. We have rights here in the USA that even the majority cannot take away.
 
Rich2018 said:
North Korea is a non-constitutional republic.

(Even if it had a constitution, it doesn't serve the people and there's no representative of them)

The USA is a different kind of republic. It is a CONSTITUTIONAL Republic.
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NK is a communist dictatorship, and Pete was making a backhanded insult toward us.
 
SDET said:
The defining difference is inalienable rights. We have rights here in the USA that even the majority cannot take away.
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Other countries have rights - in some cases more rights than the people of the USA have.

For instance you will go to jail if you go to a country that the president doesn't want you to go to.

And yes the majority CAN take away any of those rights - for instance a retired SC justice suggested repealing the 2nd amendment. If there was enough support, it could be repealed and that right taken away.


In an emergency, the US government can suspend any or all of those rights.
 
Kal'Stang said:
Umm...you do realize its the Democrats that pushed for giving out electoral votes based on districts instead of winner takes all right, after Trump won? There's only two States that I'm aware of does not give a winner take all. Nebraska and Maine. All others are a winner takes all system. You obviously do not know how our system works.
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LOL Dems would never push for giving electoral votes based on districts. The only party it benefits is the GOP. And yes I do know how your system works.
 
PeteEU said:
LOL Dems would never push for giving electoral votes based on districts. The only party it benefits is the GOP. And yes I do know how your system works.
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No, you don't. But hey, since you're the one making the claim, prove your claim. Maybe it will teach you something by having to look up the info yourself.
 
Rich2018 said:
I had a recent discussion with someone on-line. He is an American and states that the USA is not a Democracy, it is a Constitutional Republic.

On YouTube there are a number of videos saying that Democracy is different (and usually inferior) to a Republic.

Are there any US members who actually agree with this ?


For the record I said that a Republic is a form of Democracy (though not all Republics are it is true like the USSR, DDR, PRC, Saddam's Iraq etc)


Thoughts ?
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Well, it's not so much democracy vs Republic, as it is Federalist vs Anti Federalist. We are both a Representative Democracy, and a Republic. The differences between one side and the other is whether to change the Democracy v Republic level, it's along the lines of Federal and Anti Federal. But what is strange, is that the anti federal party, is not looking after the interests of the people but the corporate class instead. As is the federalists of the Democratic party, to a certain degree as well. Both are corrupt, both sell votes, buy votes, intimidate, so forth and so on. And the only real difference between the two, is what they say on the campaign trail, which is a stage show purely there for entertainment.

And so came a reality tv show star, who knew how to play the crowds, appeal to the masses. Sell a product. And the ****er won, whether the people got duped by Russian Propaganda, or were star struck by Trump, they voted voted for him. And because of an archaic voting system that makes a single person from Montana's vot worth a couple hundred peoples votes from California. The minority elected him, and now instead of being just screwed with another run of the mill politician, we are royally ****ed with this baffoon.

And both parties have forgotten what they stand for, Democrats a stronger federal government the educates and enriches the peoples lives, and Republicans, Stronger State governments that ensure personal liberty. Its time we all just started voting third party in state elections, begin the flushing cycle from the bottom up. Just start over with new parties. Its been done before, we can do it again.
 
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