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Was the Constitutional Convention really a Coup?

Howard the Duck said:
No. They opposed taxation WITHOUT REPRESENTATION.
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The reason that taxation was a problem during the 1770's, was a currency issue. Gold was only used in the United Kingdom, not in the colonies of the United States of America or any other colonies during that era. If you were a citizen of the United Kingdom, and you had a vast amount of gold, and you wanted to move to the colonies of the United States: you had to sell your gold and choose cheaper coins to move to America. During that era, landowners were land rich and cash poor, and currency was not there in the amounts needed to pay taxes with currency. The only other way to pay taxes, was selling their harvest to pay taxes. The American War, was not started by the poor, or the middle class -- it was started by the landowners.

Taxes as the reason for the war is strange. Before the start of the war, the colonies of the United States of America was paying 25% less in taxes then if they were living in the United Kingdom. But, in the United Kingdom, you could pay your taxes in gold were it was common and in the American colonies, currency was very limited.
 
Atheist 2020 said:
If I was a African American I would be rolling my eyes and looking up and taking a deep breath.
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No idea why you are imagining you are African American??? Care to explain??
 
Atheist 2020 said:
We did have these Native Americans and Americans wars all the way up to the 20th century. General Custer was a American and killed by a Native American. Now what do they call Americans fighting Americans in a military conflict?
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not a Civil War unless you have a significant reference to say otherwise??.
 
James972 said:
wrong of course, it was a freedom issue!!
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Freedom, freedom from what? The average American in the 1770's was taller, better educated, and paid 25% less taxes then there counter-point in the United Kingdom.
 
James972 said:
not a Civil War unless you have a significant reference to say otherwise??.
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It is strange, only with two groups that read the same Bible, speak in the same language, use identical laws -- then it can be a civil war. Native Americans did not get the right to vote until the 1920's and it was a act of Congress. But, the war on Native Americans to take land away from them is only declared Indian wars.
 
James972 said:
No idea why you are imagining you are African American??? Care to explain??
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I am not a African American, but, I study and try to understand all possible cultures within the United States of America and within Canada as well. America is moving into being a Majority Minority country. If I get into my 80's or into my 90's, I want to have a long and rational understanding to deal with the second quarter of the twenty-first century. With my three daughters, I want them to develop their personal skills during this shift of population transfer that can last over a century.
 
Atheist 2020 said:
I am not a African American, but, I study and try to understand all possible cultures within the United States of America and within Canada as well. America is moving into being a Majority Minority country. If I get into my 80's or into my 90's, I want to have a long and rational understanding to deal with the second quarter of the twenty-first century. With my three daughters, I want them to develop their personal skills during this shift of population transfer that can last over a century.
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I asked why you were imagining you were an Afro-american rolling your eyes. Please reread for comprehension
 
Atheist 2020 said:
It is strange, only with two groups that read the same Bible, speak in the same language, use identical laws -- then it can be a civil war. Native Americans did not get the right to vote until the 1920's and it was a act of Congress. But, the war on Native Americans to take land away from them is only declared Indian wars.
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I guess because they were not seen as part of the culture, and indeed it seems they weren't and still don't want to be even today.
 
Atheist 2020 said:
Freedom, freedom from what? .
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freedom from big liberal central govt. This is what all of human history is about. It is why our genius founders gave us a limited central govt ie so it would never be a liberal central govt. Do you understand?
 
Atheist 2020 said:
The average American in the 1770's was taller, better educated, and paid 25% less taxes then there counter-point in the United Kingdom.
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I don't think those were significant issues to Thomas Jefferson when he wrote the Declaration of Independence. Do you understand?
 
James972 said:
freedom from big liberal central govt. This is what all of human history is about. It is why our genius founders gave us a limited central govt ie so it would never be a liberal central govt. Do you understand?
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I believe you would be happy being in the Stone Age as government was really small.
 
Atheist 2020 said:
I believe you would be happy being in the Stone Age as government was really small.
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govt was really small in America based on our Founders idea that govt had been the source of evil in human history.
 
James972 said:
govt was really small in America based on our Founders idea that govt had been the source of evil in human history.
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Remember, in 1776 it was the question about Liberty. In 1789, the constitution without the Bill of Rights, was design to settle questions dealing with property rights. The Office of President, the Congress and the courts were designed to make stable laws and customs dealing with property rights. At the time, slaves were property and were written into the constitution. Only African Americans are written within the constitution and written as a negative dialog
 
Atheist 2020 said:
Remember, in 1776 it was the question about Liberty.
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yes, and the Constitution ultimately secured that liberty by restricting the central govt to a few enumerated powers on theory that central govt had been the source of evil in human history. Do you understand now? I don't think you will ever get an opportunity like the one I am offering you. Please take advantage of it
 
James972 said:
yes, and the Constitution ultimately secured that liberty by restricting the central govt to a few enumerated powers on theory that central govt had been the source of evil in human history. Do you understand now? I don't think you will ever get an opportunity like the one I am offering you. Please take advantage of it
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If you look at the constitution without the Bill of Rights, there is no talk about liberty, no talk about human rights, no talk about civil rights. When the first Congress meet for the first time, there was nothing stopping them from doing whatever they wanted.
 
Atheist 2020 said:
If you look at the constitution without the Bill of Rights, there is no talk about liberty, no talk about human rights, no talk about civil rights. When the first Congress meet for the first time, there was nothing stopping them from doing whatever they wanted.
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no idea what your subject is or what your point is??
 
James972 said:
So did our genius founders!


-15)The natural progress of things is for liberty to yield and government to gain ground.

“I believe there are more instances of the abridgment of the freedom of the people by gradual and silent encroachments of those in power than by violent and sudden usurpations.”
― James Madison


Experience hath shewn, that even under the best forms of government those entrusted with power have, in time, and by slow operations, perverted it into tyranny.
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I prefer this quote by Edmund Burke from On the Revolution in France, "the effect of liberty to individuals is that they may do what they please; we ought to see what it will please them to do before re risk congratulations, which may be soon turned into complaints."

What you see as liberty I see as the power of the rich over everyone else. I want that power and that wealth to be restricted by a large, powerful, and expensive government that reflects majority opinion.
 
James972 said:
no, it was created by liberals who believe in govt, not freedom. Do you understand?
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Government can increase the freedom of employees by restricting that of their employers.
 
Atheist 2020 said:
When has anyone sued for civil rights, or human rights from the main body of the constitution of 1789?
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why not cut the BS, give the answer, and then tell us what your point and subject are???
 
SmartCat said:
What you see as liberty I see as the power of the rich over everyone else.
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1) we have capitalism so the rich have no power to even survive unless they please customers more than any competition anywhere in the world.
Do you call, for example, having the best cancer cure in the world having power over everyone else???

2) if you think having the best treatment for cancer gives the inventor too much power you are free under capitalism not to use that cure and use a less effective one or use no cure at all and die. And you are free to persuade everybody not to use the cure so the inventor won't have so much power
 
SmartCat said:
I want that power and that wealth to be restricted by a large, powerful, and expensive government that reflects majority opinion.
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if a company has the best cure for cancer you want govt to restrict their power and wealth so they cant develop more cures for cancer?? See why we say liberalism is based in pure ignorance?
 
SmartCat said:
Government can increase the freedom of employees by restricting that of their employers.
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The pure beauty of capitalism is that if an employee does not feel he has enough freedom
he is free to quit and sell his services to the highest bidder in the world offering him the most freedom. Similarly, if you feel a product does not afford you the freedom you want( eg a tractor is not good enough to give you the freedom you want) you are free to sell it and buy the one that gives you the most freedom.

If the soviets intervene in 1000 places to get this and that result based on guesses rather the market place you end up with 120 million dead becuase the market place is rational while soviet guessing is not. I'm 100% sure that is way over your head! Oh well.
 
James972 said:
The pure beauty of capitalism is that if an employee does not feel he has enough freedom
he is free to quit and sell his services to the highest bidder in the world offering him the most freedom. Similarly, if you feel a product does not afford you the freedom you want( eg a tractor is not good enough to give you the freedom you want) you are free to sell it and buy the one that gives you the most freedom.

If the soviets intervene in 1000 places to get this and that result based on guesses rather the market place you end up with 120 million dead becuase the market place is rational while soviet guessing is not. I'm 100% sure that is way over your head! Oh well.
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Few people have the ability to choose between job offers. They have to take what they can get.

The Cold War is over. You no longer have the Soviet Union to serve as a horrible alternative to American capitalism. Now you have to explain why it is a better idea to cut taxes for the rich and corporations than it is to provide every American with decent health care.
 
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