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Constitutional Crisis

Rexedgar

Yo-Semite!
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I have asked this here before: What happens (details) if we have a Constitutional Crisis? If the Administration manages to get Mueller removed what are the next steps in our government? I realize that this is speculation, but the term (Const. Crisis) has been bandied about for the last ten months or more. Was the Watergate event a C.C.?
 
I have asked this here before: What happens (details) if we have a Constitutional Crisis? If the Administration manages to get Mueller removed what are the next steps in our government? I realize that this is speculation, but the term (Const. Crisis) has been bandied about for the last ten months or more. Was the Watergate event a C.C.?

Would it be un Constitutional to fire mueller? Not smart, maybe. But not legal?
 
I have asked this here before: What happens (details) if we have a Constitutional Crisis? If the Administration manages to get Mueller removed what are the next steps in our government? I realize that this is speculation, but the term (Const. Crisis) has been bandied about for the last ten months or more. Was the Watergate event a C.C.?

House would need to pass Articles of Impeachment, simple majority to send to the Senate. Then to the Senate as per link, 2/3rd plus 1 to pass an Article of Impeachment.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Impeachment_in_the_United_States#Senate

Senate[edit]

Depiction of the impeachment trial of President Andrew Johnson, in 1868, Chief Justice Salmon P. Chase presiding.
The proceedings unfold in the form of a trial, with each side having the right to call witnesses and perform cross-examinations. The House members, who are given the collective title of managers during the course of the trial, present the prosecution case, and the impeached official has the right to mount a defense with his own attorneys as well. Senators must also take an oath or affirmation that they will perform their duties honestly and with due diligence. After hearing the charges, the Senate usually deliberates in private. The U.S. Constitution requires a two-thirds majority for conviction.
The Senate enters judgment on its decision, whether that be to convict or acquit, and a copy of the judgment is filed with the Secretary of State.[4] Upon conviction in the Senate, the official is automatically removed from office and may also be barred from holding future office.[5] The removed official is also liable to criminal prosecution. The President may not grant a pardon in the impeachment case, but may in any resulting criminal case.
 
I have asked this here before: What happens (details) if we have a Constitutional Crisis? If the Administration manages to get Mueller removed what are the next steps in our government? I realize that this is speculation, but the term (Const. Crisis) has been bandied about for the last ten months or more. Was the Watergate event a C.C.?

A Constitutional crisis comes up when a problem arises that the Constitution cannot solve.

Trump has the authority to fire Mueller so there would be no Constitutional crisis. And even if he didn't he can removed from office. Now if he was impeached and removed and refused to go and used the army to back up his refusal that would be a Constitutional crisis.
 
House would need to pass Articles of Impeachment, simple majority to send to the Senate. Then to the Senate as per link, 2/3rd plus 1 to pass an Article of Impeachment.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Impeachment_in_the_United_States#Senate

You’ve evidently done some thinking on the topic. Can you flesh it out a little more as it applies in today’s atmosphere? Sessions get moved somewhere else, a new AG is appointed (who is not recused), Rosenstein becomes a non factor, DJT gets his new AG to terminate Mueller, then what do you see happening?


When I was a kid, I remember a B&W film re: the impeachment of Andrew Johnson. In the final scene a Senator was carried in on a stretcher to cast the final ‘nay’ vote.
 
I have asked this here before: What happens (details) if we have a Constitutional Crisis? If the Administration manages to get Mueller removed what are the next steps in our government? I realize that this is speculation, but the term (Const. Crisis) has been bandied about for the last ten months or more. Was the Watergate event a C.C.?

Vote in Democrats in 2018 and impeach the orange slimeball. Then clean house by impeaching the judicial nominees who walked through without being contested by the weak judicial approval process we are seeing in this current Congress.
 
A Constitutional crisis comes up when a problem arises that the Constitution cannot solve.

Trump has the authority to fire Mueller so there would be no Constitutional crisis. And even if he didn't he can removed from office. Now if he was impeached and removed and refused to go and used the army to back up his refusal that would be a Constitutional crisis.

My understanding is that DJT cannot directly terminate the Special Counsel, but has to go through the AG.
 
A Constitutional crisis comes up when a problem arises that the Constitution cannot solve.

Trump has the authority to fire Mueller so there would be no Constitutional crisis. And even if he didn't he can removed from office. Now if he was impeached and removed and refused to go and used the army to back up his refusal that would be a Constitutional crisis.

But, of course, there would most definitely be a constitutional crisis. Firing a guy in order to end an investigation that could put the President in legal jeopardy? Crisis, big time.
 
But, of course, there would most definitely be a constitutional crisis. Firing a guy in order to end an investigation that could put the President in legal jeopardy? Crisis, big time.

A political crisis. Not a constitutional one. He has the authority to fire Mueller and if the Congress disagrees and believes he's obstructed the investigation they have a Constitutional remedy - impeachment. The fact that they might not choose to pursue that remedy doesn't make it a Constitutional crisis.
 
You’ve evidently done some thinking on the topic. Can you flesh it out a little more as it applies in today’s atmosphere? Sessions get moved somewhere else, a new AG is appointed (who is not recused), Rosenstein becomes a non factor, DJT gets his new AG to terminate Mueller, then what do you see happening?


When I was a kid, I remember a B&W film re: the impeachment of Andrew Johnson. In the final scene a Senator was carried in on a stretcher to cast the final ‘nay’ vote.
Sessions ain't moving. He may be fired, but I do not see him moving.

As of today, not passing the House, if it did, would not pass in the Senate.

Now if charges were laid by Mueller, the variables change, against other senior members of Trumps Transition team, including family members, then and only then it might pass.
Trump is down to 32 % and this lessens the fear many R's have about Trump support in the 18 elections.
Just some thoughts
 
My understanding is that DJT cannot directly terminate the Special Counsel, but has to go through the AG.

That could be but practically it makes no difference. Sessions serves at Trumps pleasure and he can simply replace Sessions with someone who will fire Mueller.
 
That could be but practically it makes no difference. Sessions serves at Trumps pleasure and he can simply replace Sessions with someone who will fire Mueller.

But sessions recused himself in the Russia investigation. The deputy ag is in charge of firing Mueller at this point.
 
But sessions recused himself in the Russia investigation. The deputy ag is in charge of firing Mueller at this point.

And, he stated that he will not. However, Trump could fire Sessions, replace him with someone who will fire Mueller. I hope he does. Because, that act will end his presidency.
 
And, he stated that he will not. However, Trump could fire Sessions, replace him with someone who will fire Mueller. I hope he does. Because, that act will end his presidency.

Who will get rid of him?
 
A political crisis. Not a constitutional one. He has the authority to fire Mueller and if the Congress disagrees and believes he's obstructed the investigation they have a Constitutional remedy - impeachment. The fact that they might not choose to pursue that remedy doesn't make it a Constitutional crisis.

I think perhaps we're splitting semantic hairs here.

A Constitutional Crisis Is on the Way
 
And, he stated that he will not. However, Trump could fire Sessions, replace him with someone who will fire Mueller. I hope he does. Because, that act will end his presidency.
Not going to work.

That would only move Rosenstein to acting AG of the entire DOJ. Grassley and Graham have already stated they will not tolerate Trump firing Sessions as a trick to get rid of the special counsel.
 
The crisis that we could face is this
1- Trump fires Mueller and sets up obstacles effectively crippling the investigation
2- Trump goes even further and issues pardons to many of his allies
3- Republicans in Congress have a choice to make... do they turn against Trump for obstructing justice and making the rule of law a mockery or do they simply roll over like good house pets and make half hearted statements that he should not have done that but in reality actually do next to nothing in terms of real action?
4- I suspect enough of them will do next to nothing and the real crisis then becomes when Trump realizes he is King and can do pretty much any thing he wants to do and there really no longer is any checks and balances on him.

That begins the Constitutional crisis as we will have an autocrat in office without any effective check upon him from the Congress.
 
I have asked this here before: What happens (details) if we have a Constitutional Crisis? If the Administration manages to get Mueller removed what are the next steps in our government? I realize that this is speculation, but the term (Const. Crisis) has been bandied about for the last ten months or more. Was the Watergate event a C.C.?
In theory, Mueller could dispute his firing and a judge could order his reinstatement.

Another possibility is that another special counsel will take Mueller's place, or the Congress could reinstate the independent counsel law, and the investigation would continue.
 
My understanding is that DJT cannot directly terminate the Special Counsel, but has to go through the AG.

That's true. Judge Bork was the acting AG that fired the special prosecutor for Nixon after several above Bork in the AG's office refused to do so and resigned. This was the crisis known as the "Saturday Night Massacre".
 
I have asked this here before: What happens (details) if we have a Constitutional Crisis? If the Administration manages to get Mueller removed what are the next steps in our government? I realize that this is speculation, but the term (Const. Crisis) has been bandied about for the last ten months or more. Was the Watergate event a C.C.?

We don't have a constitutional crises nor are we likely to. That is stuff made up by the likes of Mark Levin and other far right antiAmericans who want to have a constitutional convention to rewrite the whole thing to suit their agenda.
 
My understanding is that DJT cannot directly terminate the Special Counsel, but has to go through the AG.

Hell, the way things are going, President Trump is better off politically to leave Mueller right where he is.
 
My understanding is that DJT cannot directly terminate the Special Counsel, but has to go through the AG.

Correct- As the AG has recused himself, goes to the Dep AG. if he refuses and DJT fires him, DJT goes to the next in line. And if refused, can fire them. And so on down the chain.
 
And, he stated that he will not. However, Trump could fire Sessions, replace him with someone who will fire Mueller. I hope he does. Because, that act will end his presidency.

I don't believe this, Calamity. I don't.

I've been following this for months, and I see nothing happening. I honestly believe he can move, or fire Sessions, hire someone in his place and have that person fire Mueller, and I think that life will go on, and the sun will rise the next day, and not a damn thing will happen to Trump.

He is pretty much untouchable at this point. I don't see the GOP doing anything, because they are too worried about getting dumb ass bills passed to worry about any constitutional crises going on in the nation.
 
I have asked this here before: What happens (details) if we have a Constitutional Crisis? If the Administration manages to get Mueller removed what are the next steps in our government? I realize that this is speculation, but the term (Const. Crisis) has been bandied about for the last ten months or more. Was the Watergate event a C.C.?

I understand that nobody wants to talk about it, but I would say that when Congress passes illegitimate legislation to render the Fourth Amendment moot, we already have a Constitutional Crisis. Judge Napolitano has pointed that out in several of his books, including 2011 book "It is dangerous to be right when the Government is Wrong".

I would say that when Congress declares that Habeas Corpus is no longer valid, we already have a Constitutional Crisis.

Wake up and smell the napalm, it's been burning for years.
 
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