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Thread: Constitutional Crisis

  1. #31
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    Re: Constitutional Crisis

    Quote Originally Posted by Checkerboard Strangler View Post
    Filling vacancies?
    I do not understand.

  2. #32
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    Re: Constitutional Crisis

    Quote Originally Posted by Tennyson View Post
    I do not understand.
    That's part of Article II.

    Please clarify exactly what part of Article II you're referring to, or give an example.
    Cheers
    Quote Originally Posted by American View Post
    Truman, that ruthless bastard. Democrats should be banned from ever holding the Presidency.
    "The Left ones think I'm Right, the Right ones think I'm wrong." (Leon Russell - "Magic Mirror")




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    Re: Constitutional Crisis

    Quote Originally Posted by Checkerboard Strangler View Post
    That's part of Article II.

    Please clarify exactly what part of Article II you're referring to, or give an example.
    Cheers
    Comey, Mueller, etc al., are all under the Executive Branch, which is Article II, not Article I or III.

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    Re: Constitutional Crisis

    Yes, Nixon ordering the special prosecutor removed was a constitutional crisis, as the constitution neither prohibited the action, nor permitted it.

    When a president uses his authority in a way that could be deemed an abuse of power, you have a constitutional crisis.

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    Re: Constitutional Crisis

    Quote Originally Posted by joG View Post
    Would it be un Constitutional to fire mueller? Not smart, maybe. But not legal?
    It'd depend on the reason for firing him. See 28 CFR 600.7(d):

    (d) The Special Counsel may be disciplined or removed from office only by the personal action of the Attorney General. The Attorney General may remove a Special Counsel for misconduct, dereliction of duty, incapacity, conflict of interest, or for other good cause, including violation of Departmental policies. The Attorney General shall inform the Special Counsel in writing of the specific reason for his or her removal.

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    Re: Constitutional Crisis

    Quote Originally Posted by Tanngrisnir View Post
    But, of course, there would most definitely be a constitutional crisis. Firing a guy in order to end an investigation that could put the President in legal jeopardy? Crisis, big time.
    What would happen if Trump did not fire Mueller, but cut off funding? Mueller is still allowed to investigate on his own dime. The reason you cut off the money is because a large number of hack Democrat lawyers; sub-contractors, appear to be over billing the US government. These are very serious charges so we will need to investigate. Nobody has been fired. If they quit this is fine, since it is free country.

    The analogy is we hire a contractor, who then hires other subcontractors. The original contractor is there to fix the White House lawn; Russian collusion. After they are done, instead of ending the contract, they take it on themselves to trim all the cherry trees and dust the White House, to the tune of $millions of extra. These extra were never part of the original contract but appears to be a scam to steal tax payer money. If this was true, sort of like hypothetical collusion, it would need to be investigated. We may even need to to break into all the lawyer subcontractors offices, to gather data, since conspiracy to defraud the US government and the tax payer is a very serious charge. Mueller is never fired.

  7. #37
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    Re: Constitutional Crisis

    [QUOTE=wellwisher;1068409735]What would happen if Trump did not fire Mueller, but cut off funding? Mueller is still allowed to investigate on his own dime. The reason you cut off the money is because a large number of hack Democrat lawyers; sub-contractors, appear to be over billing the US government. These are very serious charges so we will need to investigate. Nobody has been fired. If they quit this is fine, since it is free country. [/quolte]

    Nah. That doesn't appear to happening at all.
    Well, he see this one particularly hot chick and not does she bag he slackjawed, but he lets a "Whoa" slip out

  8. #38
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    Re: Constitutional Crisis

    Quote Originally Posted by Tennyson View Post
    A constitutional crisis would be holding Trump accountable for exercising his Article II power by Congress, which would be a constitutional crises over the seperation of powers doctrine.
    There is always the possibility the President may have exercised his power and authority in Article II in such a way as to constitute as a "high crime and misdemeanor." Obstruction of justice, including attempted obstruction, is a "high crime" or a "misdemeanor." The Constitution vested to Congress and the political process the question of whether to impeach a President for exercising Article II power in such a manner as to constitute as a "high crime" or "misdemeanor." The impeachment power of Congress is a feature of checks-n-balances on the Executive Branch created by the Constitution.
    "I cannot undertake to lay my finger on that article of the Constitution which granted a right to Congress of expending, on objects of benevolence, the money of their constituents." James Madison, Father of the U.S. Constitution and 4th president of the United States.

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    Re: Constitutional Crisis

    Quote Originally Posted by NotreDame View Post
    There is always the possibility the President may have exercised his power and authority in Article II in such a way as to constitute as a "high crime and misdemeanor." Obstruction of justice, including attempted obstruction, is a "high crime" or a "misdemeanor." The Constitution vested to Congress and the political process the question of whether to impeach a President for exercising Article II power in such a manner as to constitute as a "high crime" or "misdemeanor." The impeachment power of Congress is a feature of checks-n-balances on the Executive Branch created by the Constitution.
    That would be getting into the mens rea of the whys of Trump's actions.

    There was nothing in the manner of firing Comey that would satisfy an obstruction charge with what is publicly known.

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    Re: Constitutional Crisis

    Quote Originally Posted by Tennyson View Post
    That would be getting into the mens rea of the whys of Trump's actions.

    There was nothing in the manner of firing Comey that would satisfy an obstruction charge with what is publicly known.
    Hmmm....depends. First, there is a difference between violating a federal statute and receiving a conviction and impeachment. I am not convinced Congress is limited to impeaching a President only on basis of the statutory elements criminalizing the conduct. However, it is very likely Congress would closely adhere to the statutory elements, or some form of them, when drafting articles of impeachment for the offense of obstruction of justice.

    Despite this, the Constitution vested to Congress the power of impeachment for "high crimes and misdemeanors." Hence, ultimately, Congress would decide whether there is sufficient evidence that Trump exercised his power in a manner constituting as obstruction of justice, and Congress is not merely limited to the act of firing Comey.
    "I cannot undertake to lay my finger on that article of the Constitution which granted a right to Congress of expending, on objects of benevolence, the money of their constituents." James Madison, Father of the U.S. Constitution and 4th president of the United States.

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