• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Article 5 Convention of the States

Goshin

Goshin

Burned Out Ex-Mod
DP Veteran
Joined
Mar 16, 2009
Messages
47,458
Reaction score
53,140
Location
Dixie
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
Some of you are familiar with this I'm sure.

I've been opposed to it to this point, feeling it was too risky and that we could not be sure what we would get out of such a convention.


I've changed my mind. We're past the point where the system-as-is can be reformed without drastic measures, and the current polarization is severely damaging our sense of self as a nation united. The Fedgov will not reform or reduce its power in and of its own action; may not be capable of it.

The States however, may have the power.

We're at a point where both sides fear the other side holding power in DC to an unprecedented degree, a time when liberties some consider essential can hang in the balance of a single SCOTUS appointment.

The Fedgov was never supposed to be so powerful.

We can continue to live where the 51% dictate to the 49%, who become more miserable, resentful and rebellious as it progresses (and it will get worse, gov's exist to gather more power to themselves) or we can make changes.

If we continue as we are, we're like a pressure cooker with the heat dialing up.

I've decided to support the Article V Convention as an alternative to ongoing disaster.

https://www.conventionofstates.com/
 
Goshin said:
Some of you are familiar with this I'm sure.

I've been opposed to it to this point, feeling it was too risky and that we could not be sure what we would get out of such a convention.


I've changed my mind. We're past the point where the system-as-is can be reformed without drastic measures, and the current polarization is severely damaging our sense of self as a nation united. The Fedgov will not reform or reduce its power in and of its own action; may not be capable of it.

The States however, may have the power.

We're at a point where both sides fear the other side holding power in DC to an unprecedented degree, a time when liberties some consider essential can hang in the balance of a single SCOTUS appointment.

The Fedgov was never supposed to be so powerful.

We can continue to live where the 51% dictate to the 49%, who become more miserable, resentful and rebellious as it progresses (and it will get worse, gov's exist to gather more power to themselves) or we can make changes.

If we continue as we are, we're like a pressure cooker with the heat dialing up.

I've decided to support the Article V Convention as an alternative to ongoing disaster.

https://www.conventionofstates.com/
Click to expand...

Glad you've come around. I hope I at least played some small role in your change of heart. :)
 
countryboy said:
Glad you've come around. I hope I at least played some small role in your change of heart. :)
Click to expand...


I wasn't aware there was an actual movement to do it before you brought it up, so yeah. :)
 
Goshin said:
Some of you are familiar with this I'm sure.

I've been opposed to it to this point, feeling it was too risky and that we could not be sure what we would get out of such a convention.


I've changed my mind. We're past the point where the system-as-is can be reformed without drastic measures, and the current polarization is severely damaging our sense of self as a nation united. The Fedgov will not reform or reduce its power in and of its own action; may not be capable of it.

The States however, may have the power.

We're at a point where both sides fear the other side holding power in DC to an unprecedented degree, a time when liberties some consider essential can hang in the balance of a single SCOTUS appointment.

The Fedgov was never supposed to be so powerful.

We can continue to live where the 51% dictate to the 49%, who become more miserable, resentful and rebellious as it progresses (and it will get worse, gov's exist to gather more power to themselves) or we can make changes.

If we continue as we are, we're like a pressure cooker with the heat dialing up.

I've decided to support the Article V Convention as an alternative to ongoing disaster.

https://www.conventionofstates.com/
Click to expand...

Good post! I'm sure many people feel similarly.

I've been watching all of the Article V organizations for about 7 years. I tried to dialog with any, about constitutional intent, none would. I became suspicious.

Then in 2014 Mark Levin spoke at a conference in Manhattan, I became sure of my suspicions. I document the entirety of what I believe I've found good evidence for here.

The threat of hijacking to Article V - ALEC
 
These conversations always remind me of a song -



I'm not sure that there is any chance of peaceful resolution to the ideologies which divide us.
 
Goshin said:
Some of you are familiar with this I'm sure.

I've been opposed to it to this point, feeling it was too risky and that we could not be sure what we would get out of such a convention.


I've changed my mind. We're past the point where the system-as-is can be reformed without drastic measures, and the current polarization is severely damaging our sense of self as a nation united. The Fedgov will not reform or reduce its power in and of its own action; may not be capable of it.

The States however, may have the power.

We're at a point where both sides fear the other side holding power in DC to an unprecedented degree, a time when liberties some consider essential can hang in the balance of a single SCOTUS appointment.

The Fedgov was never supposed to be so powerful.

We can continue to live where the 51% dictate to the 49%, who become more miserable, resentful and rebellious as it progresses (and it will get worse, gov's exist to gather more power to themselves) or we can make changes.

If we continue as we are, we're like a pressure cooker with the heat dialing up.

I've decided to support the Article V Convention as an alternative to ongoing disaster.

https://www.conventionofstates.com/
Click to expand...

What to do when the convention is called?
 
Goshin said:
Some of you are familiar with this I'm sure.

I've been opposed to it to this point, feeling it was too risky and that we could not be sure what we would get out of such a convention.


I've changed my mind. We're past the point where the system-as-is can be reformed without drastic measures, and the current polarization is severely damaging our sense of self as a nation united. The Fedgov will not reform or reduce its power in and of its own action; may not be capable of it.

The States however, may have the power.

We're at a point where both sides fear the other side holding power in DC to an unprecedented degree, a time when liberties some consider essential can hang in the balance of a single SCOTUS appointment.

The Fedgov was never supposed to be so powerful.

We can continue to live where the 51% dictate to the 49%, who become more miserable, resentful and rebellious as it progresses (and it will get worse, gov's exist to gather more power to themselves) or we can make changes.

If we continue as we are, we're like a pressure cooker with the heat dialing up.

I've decided to support the Article V Convention as an alternative to ongoing disaster.

https://www.conventionofstates.com/
Click to expand...

Puts an awful lot of faith in both the legislators and citizens. You been to Walmart lately? One of the benefits of senior citizenship and no direct heirs. You young’uns better get it figured out! That and the environment/climate issue! Take that, Jack Hays!
 
Lutherf said:
These conversations always remind me of a song -



I'm not sure that there is any chance of peaceful resolution to the ideologies which divide us.
Click to expand...

Unfortunately, I think you are correct......
 
I want to see a convention of states in my lifetime.

We are at a tipping point where the cities want to call the shots for the rest of the country by the popular vote, and the DC politicians runs ragged around the constitution as it is.
 
Goshin said:
Some of you are familiar with this I'm sure.

I've been opposed to it to this point, feeling it was too risky and that we could not be sure what we would get out of such a convention.


I've changed my mind. We're past the point where the system-as-is can be reformed without drastic measures, and the current polarization is severely damaging our sense of self as a nation united. The Fedgov will not reform or reduce its power in and of its own action; may not be capable of it.

The States however, may have the power.

We're at a point where both sides fear the other side holding power in DC to an unprecedented degree, a time when liberties some consider essential can hang in the balance of a single SCOTUS appointment.

The Fedgov was never supposed to be so powerful.

We can continue to live where the 51% dictate to the 49%, who become more miserable, resentful and rebellious as it progresses (and it will get worse, gov's exist to gather more power to themselves) or we can make changes.

If we continue as we are, we're like a pressure cooker with the heat dialing up.

I've decided to support the Article V Convention as an alternative to ongoing disaster.

https://www.conventionofstates.com/
Click to expand...

This is why this approach will never succeed:

2. Ratification of any proposed amendment requires the approval of 38 states. It only takes 13 states to vote “no” to defeat any proposed amendment, and the chances of 38 state legislatures approving a rogue amendment are effectively zero.

https://www.conventionofstates.com/succeed
Click to expand...

The changes this group wants to make would be opposed by every Elite of every Party, by the Mainstream Media and by their talking potato heads. This group would never be able to muster 38 state legislatures to vote for their changes.

And then, there is this: On one hand, this group says this: "1. There is a clear, strong single-subject precedent that would almost certainly be declared binding in the event of a court challenge." But, on the other hand, they list 4 problems they want to address. So, which is it? Are they shooting for a clear, strong single-subject to address? Or do they want to address 4 subjects? If it's 4 subjects, that opens the possibility of adding a 5th, 6th, etc. Maybe they want to have FOUR Article 5 Conventions?

No...I don't think we are ready for this.
 
Harshaw said:
What to do when the convention is called?
Click to expand...


Unless I am tapped as a delegate, which is improbable, I expect I'll be holding my breath and hoping for the best like everyone else.
 
I tend to agree with Mycroft. I am skeptical that the same group of clowns that have brought us the patriot act, the AUMF, the NDAA amendments nullifying Habeas, the drug war and so many other horrors would be able to successfully and conscientiously amend the constitution so that our founding principles would remain.

IMO it is not the document itself that has us where we are, but rather the humans in charge who have ignored or even attacked the spirit and letter of the law.
 
Goshin said:
Unless I am tapped as a delegate, which is improbable, I expect I'll be holding my breath and hoping for the best like everyone else.
Click to expand...

What do you want to see happen?
 
Harshaw said:
What do you want to see happen?
Click to expand...


Ideally? I'd like to see A1 S8 re-affirmed as a limit to Fed power, and the balance of power between Fed and State restored to something approaching original intent, and something to re-affirm the BoR in a similar fashion. A balanced-budget amendment would be nice also. And end to Fed income tax would be nice but that's pretty unlikely.
 
Goshin said:
Some of you are familiar with this I'm sure.

I've been opposed to it to this point, feeling it was too risky and that we could not be sure what we would get out of such a convention.


I've changed my mind. We're past the point where the system-as-is can be reformed without drastic measures, and the current polarization is severely damaging our sense of self as a nation united. The Fedgov will not reform or reduce its power in and of its own action; may not be capable of it.

The States however, may have the power.

We're at a point where both sides fear the other side holding power in DC to an unprecedented degree, a time when liberties some consider essential can hang in the balance of a single SCOTUS appointment.

The Fedgov was never supposed to be so powerful.

We can continue to live where the 51% dictate to the 49%, who become more miserable, resentful and rebellious as it progresses (and it will get worse, gov's exist to gather more power to themselves) or we can make changes.

If we continue as we are, we're like a pressure cooker with the heat dialing up.

I've decided to support the Article V Convention as an alternative to ongoing disaster.

https://www.conventionofstates.com/
Click to expand...

Just because the nation has lost it’s unity and we have become a nation of warring tribes, I would not trust our politicians with rewriting the only document that protects us as equal individuals. (Clintons not withstanding).

I’d sooner drink cyanide c
 
Thoreau72 said:
I tend to agree with Mycroft. I am skeptical that the same group of clowns that have brought us the patriot act, the AUMF, the NDAA amendments nullifying Habeas, the drug war and so many other horrors would be able to successfully and conscientiously amend the constitution so that our founding principles would remain.

IMO it is not the document itself that has us where we are, but rather the humans in charge who have ignored or even attacked the spirit and letter of the law.
Click to expand...



Not them. The States.
 
Unitedwestand13 said:
Yes, and any convention is most likely going to be highly partisan in favor of one political ideology.
Click to expand...



Actually highly "partisan" in favor of reducing Fed power in favor of a more reasonable balance in State power. Your home state would still be free to be a liberal as it wished.... probably even more so than under current conditions.
 
Goshin said:
Actually highly "partisan" in favor of reducing Fed power in favor of a more reasonable balance in State power. Your home state would still be free to be a liberal as it wished.... probably even more so than under current conditions.
Click to expand...

One of my hopes is that democrats retake enough state legislatures in order to prevent such a convention from occurring.
 
Unitedwestand13 said:
One of my hopes is that democrats retake enough state legislatures in order to prevent such a convention from occurring.
Click to expand...



Does that mean you're ok with the 51% dictating to the 49%, using the bloated and overbearing power of the Fedgov, regardless of the wishes of the 49%? Do you think that because you feel sure you'll be in the 51% consistently from now forward?


I'd prefer people were free to choose, by voting with their feet, what kind of State they want to live in, without having to leave the entire country to do it.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom