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Thread: The Peoples Use Of Their Right - 9th AMD

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    Re: The Peoples Use Of Their Right - 9th AMD

    Quote Originally Posted by Thoreau72 View Post
    Well, George Bush is famously quoted calling the Constitution "just a piece of paper", or words to that effect. He had hired lawyers subvert the law and thereby institutionalize torture within the federal government. Point being, again, no matter how well written the law is, corrupt humans will find a way to subvert it, and if the good humans refuse to punish the bad humans, the bad guys win. That is where we are now on the continuum--the bad guys have won. Apologies for the cynicism, but that's just the way it is.
    I agree, no apologies needed, but what I've posted is that IF, the good human can agree, THEN they can define and see a right listed that will enable them to at least enforce the law using the 9th Amendment.

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    Re: The Peoples Use Of Their Right - 9th AMD

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisABrown View Post
    I agree, no apologies needed, but what I've posted is that IF, the good human can agree, THEN they can define and see a right listed that will enable them to at least enforce the law using the 9th Amendment.
    A little trivia for you, of which you may already be aware: the only case ever to even mention the Ninth as part of its deliberations was Griswold v. Connecticut from 1965, 381US479

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    Re: The Peoples Use Of Their Right - 9th AMD

    Although freedom of expression is a very valuable necessity for us Americans, to a certain extent, it is limited. In exchange for protection from domestic, or international problems, we forfeit some valuable rights through the social contract. As I do believe in keeping the government in check, if everyone were to use civil disobedience any time that they believed a law was just or unjust, we would live in a world of chaos, and nothing would be accomplished (anarchy). If the government is not legitimate through the social contract, our rights are useless. We give up CERTAIN rights. For an analogy, if you were at an office, you forfeit the second amendment, and to a certain extent, the first amendment. We have to accept this because in exchange for giving up certain rights, you are being payed.

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    Re: The Peoples Use Of Their Right - 9th AMD

    Although freedom of expression is a very valuable necessity for us Americans, to a certain extent, it is limited. In exchange for protection from domestic, or international problems, we forfeit some valuable rights through the social contract. As I do believe in keeping the government in check, if everyone were to use civil disobedience any time that they believed a law was just or unjust, we would live in a world of chaos, and nothing would be accomplished (anarchy). If the government is not legitimate through the social contract, our rights are useless. We give up CERTAIN rights. For an analogy, if you were at an office, you forfeit the second amendment, and to a certain extent, the first amendment. We have to accept this because in exchange for giving up certain rights, you are being payed.

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    Re: The Peoples Use Of Their Right - 9th AMD

    Quote Originally Posted by Thoreau72 View Post
    A little trivia for you, of which you may already be aware: the only case ever to even mention the Ninth as part of its deliberations was Griswold v. Connecticut from 1965, 381US479
    LOL, I used it to answer an OSC regarding jurisdiction from a federal judge in a false advertising complaint in 2004. The judge immediately withdrew the OSC, but the district court immediately reassigned the case to another judge who refiled the OSC. Of course my previously accept answer was rejected and the case dismissed. Made me feel very special.

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    Re: The Peoples Use Of Their Right - 9th AMD

    Quote Originally Posted by AMSHEEN View Post
    If the government is not legitimate through the social contract, our rights are useless.
    Agreed, and it is up to state Citizens to maintain a legitimate government. But, certain features are required to do that, and, when entities collude to compromise those features, we can loose the ability to maintain the legitimacy of government.

    So, at times, like NOW, we need to redefine exactly what those features are, and re-establish them. Thus, this thread. But, you bring up another right vital to maintaining constitutional government. The 1st Amendment.

    Quote Originally Posted by AMSHEEN View Post
    As I do believe in keeping the government in check, if everyone were to use civil disobedience any time that they believed a law was just or unjust, we would live in a world of chaos, and nothing would be accomplished (anarchy).
    Yes, that is true. I wish the younger generations could heed that and instead work with the philosophical basis of established law, because their actions are leading tyrants to act as if they need to squash anarchy rising, and that is not helping legitimate uses of rights at all.

    Quote Originally Posted by AMSHEEN View Post
    We give up CERTAIN rights. For an analogy, if you were at an office, you forfeit the second amendment, and to a certain extent, the first amendment. We have to accept this because in exchange for giving up certain rights, you are being payed.
    Yes, but that seems to be limited to the case of illegitimate government and the fact that those purposes of those rights are retained by the people. But I think you refer to a situation where the people do not know how or why the illegitimacy exists.

    Quote Originally Posted by AMSHEEN View Post
    Although freedom of expression is a very valuable necessity for us Americans, to a certain extent, it is limited. In exchange for protection from domestic, or international problems, we forfeit some valuable rights through the social contract.
    Yes, in practice we find it limited. However, in constitutional concept, any limit that prevents us from defending and enforcing the constitution, or maintaining legitimate government, is NOT constitutional.

    The Declaration of Independence provides the intent of the Constitution, and it specifically grants a right to alter or abolish government destructive to unalienable rights. Then the constitution makes is law with Article V, but that is right is through the states.

    This creates a need for unity within states and between the peoples of states to rally the states to act. Therein is the probably the reason Article V has never happened, aside from an unconstitutional congress that failed to convene delegates in 1911 when enough states applied for a convention. Likely to stop the federal reserve act.

    A man named Bill Walker researched the congressional archives to learn that, then filed a lawsuit.


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    Re: The Peoples Use Of Their Right - 9th AMD

    @ChrisABrown, I total agree with everything you are saying. We have very similar political beliefs, we just disagree on a meager few points.

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    Re: The Peoples Use Of Their Right - 9th AMD

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisABrown View Post
    I've determined over the years that their seems to be great intimidation among the people at even discussing their 9th Amendment right, and how to use it. There is basically a great deal of confusion about what it is for. Unfortunately this is somewhat consistent across the spectrum of our rights.

    Basically, there is almost no sense of an ability to use any of our rights for a specific purpose, nor is there a common acceptance of the notion that rights have a vital purpose in defending and enforcing the constitution itself. No one really talks about how to use them.

    This thread is to gather opinion upon the proposition that the 9th Amendment may be the most important right of all. If so, what is it for, how do we use it?
    Excellent post... I've long thought that the 9th Amendment is proof that the Constitution is a living document - and the 9th gives it the breath of life. If there are any "strict constructionists" or adherents of "original intent" out there who disagree with this, then I challenge them to explain how their constitutional philosophy discovers the unenumerated rights that the 9th Amendment clearly says exist.

    I think if we are true to the spirit of freedom and liberty, then shouldn't all personal rights that do not infringe on the freedoms of others (or are not defined by the constitution) therefore exist?

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    Re: The Peoples Use Of Their Right - 9th AMD

    Well stated!

    Quote Originally Posted by Cordelier View Post
    Excellent post... I've long thought that the 9th Amendment is proof that the Constitution is a living document - and the 9th gives it the breath of life. If there are any "strict constructionists" or adherents of "original intent" out there who disagree with this, then I challenge them to explain how their constitutional philosophy discovers the unenumerated rights that the 9th Amendment clearly says exist.

    I think if we are true to the spirit of freedom and liberty, then shouldn't all personal rights that do not infringe on the freedoms of others (or are not defined by the constitution) therefore exist?
    If we add the words of Thoreu72, the topic is pretty well covered.

    Quote Originally Posted by Thoreau72 View Post
    It's quite simple really. An exhaustive listing of The Rights Of Man, to bring Paine into it, is impossible. A complete listing is impossible for our rights, but a complete listing of the powers of government is very easy. Rights and powers are 2 different things.

    Good topic though. Do I have a right to walk down the beach at sunset? Of course I do, but there is no sense in incorporating that into the BOR.
    A complete listing is impossible because we do not know the future. Meaning the 9th Amendmrnt is our main tool as a society for adaptation along with the PURPOSE of free speech.

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    Re: The Peoples Use Of Their Right - 9th AMD

    The plain language and intent of the Ninth Amendment is not about rights, but a rule of construction.

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