• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Pardons - Question about the tradition in light of Arpaio

T

tomkat364

Active member
Joined
Nov 5, 2014
Messages
493
Reaction score
162
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Conservative
So the judge who ruled on Arpaio's pardon stated that the pardon only cancels the punishment, not the record or a crime having been committed.

This makes sense, but I have a question about the use of pardons given this opinion. Below is the list of pardons from Obama near the end of his presidency. I am only using this because it was conveniently posted in another discussion, I know all presidents pardon and I'm not claiming that his were more abusive or any such partisan thing, just using it as an example.

Now, take the first one. James Robert Adelman. 12 years imprisonment, $350,000 restitution, dated 1989. Well, 12 years from 1989 comes to... 2001. Maybe he still owed money, but his sentence would be long since served.

Next one, John Clyde Anderson. 3 yrs imprisonment, 3 yrs probation, 2 yrs parole. In total, that's 8 years, but counting forward from the sentencing date of 1972, that brings us to... 1980.

There are many more on the list.

So what is the reason for "pardoning" these people if they should already have completed their "punishment"? I believe there have been some posthumous pardons as well, so what is the point if it doesn't "clear their name?"
 
FreedomFromAll said:
The existence of pardons undermines our judicial system.
Click to expand...

Not a political science major, but I do believe that was the entire point. Just as the judicial system undermines the legislative system.

But that doesn't answer my question. Why grant meaningless pardons if the purpose/function of the pardon is simply negating the punishment?
 
tomkat364 said:
So the judge who ruled on Arpaio's pardon stated that the pardon only cancels the punishment, not the record or a crime having been committed.

This makes sense, but I have a question about the use of pardons given this opinion. Below is the list of pardons from Obama near the end of his presidency. I am only using this because it was conveniently posted in another discussion, I know all presidents pardon and I'm not claiming that his were more abusive or any such partisan thing, just using it as an example.

Now, take the first one. James Robert Adelman. 12 years imprisonment, $350,000 restitution, dated 1989. Well, 12 years from 1989 comes to... 2001. Maybe he still owed money, but his sentence would be long since served.

Next one, John Clyde Anderson. 3 yrs imprisonment, 3 yrs probation, 2 yrs parole. In total, that's 8 years, but counting forward from the sentencing date of 1972, that brings us to... 1980.

There are many more on the list.

So what is the reason for "pardoning" these people if they should already have completed their "punishment"? I believe there have been some posthumous pardons as well, so what is the point if it doesn't "clear their name?"
Click to expand...

The court resolved that open issue, ruling that the presidential pardon did not require vacating all prior orders in the case. Addressing specifically the judgment of conviction, the court wrote.

The court concluded:

“The power to pardon is an executive prerogative of mercy, not of judicial recordkeeping.” United States v. Noonan, 906 F.2d 952, 955 (3d Cir. 1990). To vacate all rulings in this case would run afoul of this important distinction. The Court found Defendant guilty of criminal contempt. The President issued the pardon. Defendant accepted. The pardon undoubtedly spared Defendant from any punishment that might otherwise have been imposed. It did not, however, “revise the historical facts” of this case. See 67A C.J.S. Pardon & Parole § 33.

The same day the Order was entered Arpaio filed a Notice of Appeal. So this story is not over.

https://legalinsurrection.com/2017/10/pardon-sheriff-joe-arpaio-request-to-vacate-criminal-contempt-finding-denied/#more-230683
 
tomkat364 said:
Not a political science major, but I do believe that was the entire point. Just as the judicial system undermines the legislative system.

But that doesn't answer my question. Why grant meaningless pardons if the purpose/function of the pardon is simply negating the punishment?
Click to expand...

I agree completely with your first sentence. Why grant pardons in these situations? Politics and favors. It is as simple as that.
 
tomkat364 said:
So the judge who ruled on Arpaio's pardon stated that the pardon only cancels the punishment, not the record or a crime having been committed.

This makes sense, but I have a question about the use of pardons given this opinion. Below is the list of pardons from Obama near the end of his presidency. I am only using this because it was conveniently posted in another discussion, I know all presidents pardon and I'm not claiming that his were more abusive or any such partisan thing, just using it as an example.

Now, take the first one. James Robert Adelman. 12 years imprisonment, $350,000 restitution, dated 1989. Well, 12 years from 1989 comes to... 2001. Maybe he still owed money, but his sentence would be long since served.

Next one, John Clyde Anderson. 3 yrs imprisonment, 3 yrs probation, 2 yrs parole. In total, that's 8 years, but counting forward from the sentencing date of 1972, that brings us to... 1980.

There are many more on the list.

So what is the reason for "pardoning" these people if they should already have completed their "punishment"? I believe there have been some posthumous pardons as well, so what is the point if it doesn't "clear their name?"
Click to expand...

Different types of pardon? Or different definitions?
Here, Canada, you can get a pardon for a long-past criminal conviction that removes the offense from your record. For example, you got busted with an ounce of pot 25 years ago. You can apply for and get a pardon that removes it from your record. People do that so they can cross borders or work in certain situations.
 
tomkat364 said:
So the judge who ruled on Arpaio's pardon stated that the pardon only cancels the punishment, not the record or a crime having been committed.

This makes sense, but I have a question about the use of pardons given this opinion. Below is the list of pardons from Obama near the end of his presidency. I am only using this because it was conveniently posted in another discussion, I know all presidents pardon and I'm not claiming that his were more abusive or any such partisan thing, just using it as an example.

Now, take the first one. James Robert Adelman. 12 years imprisonment, $350,000 restitution, dated 1989. Well, 12 years from 1989 comes to... 2001. Maybe he still owed money, but his sentence would be long since served.

Next one, John Clyde Anderson. 3 yrs imprisonment, 3 yrs probation, 2 yrs parole. In total, that's 8 years, but counting forward from the sentencing date of 1972, that brings us to... 1980.

There are many more on the list.

So what is the reason for "pardoning" these people if they should already have completed their "punishment"? I believe there have been some posthumous pardons as well, so what is the point if it doesn't "clear their name?"
Click to expand...

I cannot remember where, but I have read that the only pardon issued by George Washington at the end of his term was for those men he personally went out and arrested that were the leaders of the Whiskey Rebellion.

One possible factor for some to seek pardons from POTUS is so that their federal gun rights will be restored, according to friends of mine.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom