Page 1 of 6 123 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 59

Thread: Could a pardon itself be considered obstruction of justice?

  1. #1
    Guru
    MrWonka's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2016
    Location
    Charleston, SC
    Last Seen
    Today @ 10:59 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian - Left
    Posts
    3,985

    Could a pardon itself be considered obstruction of justice?

    I understand that the President has pretty much no limits on his ability to pardon someone for a crime, but if it's used specifically to pardon people that may be able to testify against the president for crimes he has committed in order to prevent prosecutors from turning another criminal against the president where is anywhere could a line be drawn. If Mueller says to someone like Manfort I'll let you off easy in exchange for testimony against Trump, Manfort can just say, "Why? Trump will pardon me of anything you convict me of anyway. So who cares?"

    What if anything prevents the president from using his ability to pardon someone else to keep turncoats from testifying against his own crimes?

  2. #2
    Part of the problem.
    Superfly's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    East Coast
    Last Seen
    Today @ 11:25 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Liberal
    Posts
    25,336

    Re: Could a pardon itself be considered obstruction of justice?

    Quote Originally Posted by MrWonka View Post
    I understand that the President has pretty much no limits on his ability to pardon someone for a crime, but if it's used specifically to pardon people that may be able to testify against the president for crimes he has committed in order to prevent prosecutors from turning another criminal against the president where is anywhere could a line be drawn. If Mueller says to someone like Manfort I'll let you off easy in exchange for testimony against Trump, Manfort can just say, "Why? Trump will pardon me of anything you convict me of anyway. So who cares?"

    What if anything prevents the president from using his ability to pardon someone else to keep turncoats from testifying against his own crimes?
    The NYS Attorney General.
    https://www.CoastalVeteransAdvocacyCenter.org

    Please visit my website. It's a 100% non-profit for Veterans and their families. You can go there to donate, or you can go there if you are a vet and need help.

  3. #3
    Professor

    Join Date
    May 2017
    Location
    Tennessee
    Last Seen
    @
    Gender
    Lean
    Liberal
    Posts
    2,161

    Re: Could a pardon itself be considered obstruction of justice?

    Quote Originally Posted by Superfly View Post
    The NYS Attorney General.
    Right. Trump can only pardon federal not state crimes. A Trump pardon would not prevent prosecution in a state court.

  4. #4
    Sage


    MaggieD's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Chicago Area
    Last Seen
    @
    Gender
    Lean
    Moderate
    Posts
    43,244
    Blog Entries
    43

    Re: Could a pardon itself be considered obstruction of justice?

    Quote Originally Posted by MrWonka View Post
    I understand that the President has pretty much no limits on his ability to pardon someone for a crime, but if it's used specifically to pardon people that may be able to testify against the president for crimes he has committed in order to prevent prosecutors from turning another criminal against the president where is anywhere could a line be drawn. If Mueller says to someone like Manfort I'll let you off easy in exchange for testimony against Trump, Manfort can just say, "Why? Trump will pardon me of anything you convict me of anyway. So who cares?"

    What if anything prevents the president from using his ability to pardon someone else to keep turncoats from testifying against his own crimes?
    I think the president's ability to pardon is absolute. I also think if it is grossly misused, it is obstruction of justice, for which he could be impeached.
    The devil whispered in my ear, "You cannot withstand the storm." I whispered back, "I am ​the storm."

  5. #5
    Sage


    MaggieD's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Chicago Area
    Last Seen
    @
    Gender
    Lean
    Moderate
    Posts
    43,244
    Blog Entries
    43

    Re: Could a pardon itself be considered obstruction of justice?

    Quote Originally Posted by bearpoker View Post
    Right. Trump can only pardon federal not state crimes. A Trump pardon would not prevent prosecution in a state court.
    I never knew that. Thanks!
    The devil whispered in my ear, "You cannot withstand the storm." I whispered back, "I am ​the storm."

  6. #6
    A tad Kwazy


    JANFU's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    Location
    East Coast Canada
    Last Seen
    @
    Gender
    Lean
    Slightly Liberal
    Posts
    21,938

    Re: Could a pardon itself be considered obstruction of justice?

    Quote Originally Posted by Superfly View Post
    The NYS Attorney General.
    Keerect- President can only pardon for Federal laws broken-
    Quote Originally Posted by Fenton View Post
    Hillary is the only defense I or anyone else needs.
    Quote Originally Posted by Erod View Post
    The damage to the black community from all this will be devastating.Not only on public perception and reputation, but cops simply won't want to police these neighborhoods anymore.
    Quote Originally Posted by BobDick View Post
    LMAO Clinton gets away with it but they lock up my man Cosby

  7. #7
    A tad Kwazy


    JANFU's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    Location
    East Coast Canada
    Last Seen
    @
    Gender
    Lean
    Slightly Liberal
    Posts
    21,938

    Re: Could a pardon itself be considered obstruction of justice?

    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD View Post
    I never knew that. Thanks!
    It came up a bit ago when people were discussing whether Trump can pardon himself.
    Quote Originally Posted by Fenton View Post
    Hillary is the only defense I or anyone else needs.
    Quote Originally Posted by Erod View Post
    The damage to the black community from all this will be devastating.Not only on public perception and reputation, but cops simply won't want to police these neighborhoods anymore.
    Quote Originally Posted by BobDick View Post
    LMAO Clinton gets away with it but they lock up my man Cosby

  8. #8
    Part of the problem.
    Superfly's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    East Coast
    Last Seen
    Today @ 11:25 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Liberal
    Posts
    25,336

    Re: Could a pardon itself be considered obstruction of justice?

    Quote Originally Posted by bearpoker View Post
    Right. Trump can only pardon federal not state crimes. A Trump pardon would not prevent prosecution in a state court.
    And the NYS AG has already prosecuted him (and won) for his Trump University debacle. And the NYS AG is not a fan of Herr Trump. Pretty sure that if not for federal crimes, Trump will go down for state crimes.

    http://www.politico.com/magazine/sto...ew-york-214734
    https://www.CoastalVeteransAdvocacyCenter.org

    Please visit my website. It's a 100% non-profit for Veterans and their families. You can go there to donate, or you can go there if you are a vet and need help.

  9. #9
    Sometimes wrong
    ttwtt78640's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    Uhland, Texas
    Last Seen
    Today @ 11:37 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian
    Posts
    39,666

    Re: Could a pardon itself be considered obstruction of justice?

    Quote Originally Posted by MrWonka View Post
    I understand that the President has pretty much no limits on his ability to pardon someone for a crime, but if it's used specifically to pardon people that may be able to testify against the president for crimes he has committed in order to prevent prosecutors from turning another criminal against the president where is anywhere could a line be drawn. If Mueller says to someone like Manfort I'll let you off easy in exchange for testimony against Trump, Manfort can just say, "Why? Trump will pardon me of anything you convict me of anyway. So who cares?"

    What if anything prevents the president from using his ability to pardon someone else to keep turncoats from testifying against his own crimes?
    It depends on who can bring criminal charges - if its only a federal crime then a pardon may serve that purpose but I am not sure that impeachment is limited to federal crimes even while presidential pardons are.
    “The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one persists to adapt the world to himself.
    Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.” ― George Bernard Shaw, Man and Superman

  10. #10
    Sage


    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Last Seen
    Today @ 11:38 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Liberal
    Posts
    11,161

    Re: Could a pardon itself be considered obstruction of justice?

    If a pardon is given to influence someone to not cooperate with officials looking into presidential crimes, that pardon, in of itself, is obstruction of justice.
    "I never meant to say that the Conservatives are generally stupid. I meant to say that stupid people are generally Conservative. I believe that is so obviously and universally admitted a principle that I hardly think any gentleman will deny it." --J.S. Mill

Page 1 of 6 123 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •