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Could a pardon itself be considered obstruction of justice?

MrWonka

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I understand that the President has pretty much no limits on his ability to pardon someone for a crime, but if it's used specifically to pardon people that may be able to testify against the president for crimes he has committed in order to prevent prosecutors from turning another criminal against the president where is anywhere could a line be drawn. If Mueller says to someone like Manfort I'll let you off easy in exchange for testimony against Trump, Manfort can just say, "Why? Trump will pardon me of anything you convict me of anyway. So who cares?"

What if anything prevents the president from using his ability to pardon someone else to keep turncoats from testifying against his own crimes?
 
I understand that the President has pretty much no limits on his ability to pardon someone for a crime, but if it's used specifically to pardon people that may be able to testify against the president for crimes he has committed in order to prevent prosecutors from turning another criminal against the president where is anywhere could a line be drawn. If Mueller says to someone like Manfort I'll let you off easy in exchange for testimony against Trump, Manfort can just say, "Why? Trump will pardon me of anything you convict me of anyway. So who cares?"

What if anything prevents the president from using his ability to pardon someone else to keep turncoats from testifying against his own crimes?

The NYS Attorney General.
 
I understand that the President has pretty much no limits on his ability to pardon someone for a crime, but if it's used specifically to pardon people that may be able to testify against the president for crimes he has committed in order to prevent prosecutors from turning another criminal against the president where is anywhere could a line be drawn. If Mueller says to someone like Manfort I'll let you off easy in exchange for testimony against Trump, Manfort can just say, "Why? Trump will pardon me of anything you convict me of anyway. So who cares?"

What if anything prevents the president from using his ability to pardon someone else to keep turncoats from testifying against his own crimes?

I think the president's ability to pardon is absolute. I also think if it is grossly misused, it is obstruction of justice, for which he could be impeached.
 
I understand that the President has pretty much no limits on his ability to pardon someone for a crime, but if it's used specifically to pardon people that may be able to testify against the president for crimes he has committed in order to prevent prosecutors from turning another criminal against the president where is anywhere could a line be drawn. If Mueller says to someone like Manfort I'll let you off easy in exchange for testimony against Trump, Manfort can just say, "Why? Trump will pardon me of anything you convict me of anyway. So who cares?"

What if anything prevents the president from using his ability to pardon someone else to keep turncoats from testifying against his own crimes?

It depends on who can bring criminal charges - if its only a federal crime then a pardon may serve that purpose but I am not sure that impeachment is limited to federal crimes even while presidential pardons are.
 
If a pardon is given to influence someone to not cooperate with officials looking into presidential crimes, that pardon, in of itself, is obstruction of justice.
 
Right. Trump can only pardon federal not state crimes. A Trump pardon would not prevent prosecution in a state court.

That's not totally true. Ford pardoned Nixon for crimes not yet described. It shouldn't be all that difficult to conjure up a charge if the need arises.
 
Right. Trump can only pardon federal not state crimes. A Trump pardon would not prevent prosecution in a state court.

Where is that written? What is your basis for thinking that? That seems debatable at best.
 
Where is that written? What is your basis for thinking that? That seems debatable at best.

The pardon power is exceptionally broad

It is true that the pardon power is, indeed, one of the strongest unilateral authorities of the presidency. Article II, Section 2 of the Constitution says that the president “shall have power to grant reprieves and pardons for offenses against the United States, except in cases of impeachment.”

That language carves out two quick exceptions to the notion of “complete” pardon power. Presidential pardons cannot derail or overrule the impeachment process. And they can be used only for federal crimes, not for crimes that violate state law

washingtonpost.com/news/monkey-cage/wp/2017/07/24/heres-what-you-need-to-know-about-the-presidential-power-to-pardon/?utm_term=.27bd553f0785
 
I would love to know this answer and have knowledgeable legal advice chime in.

Plenary powers are always subject to obstruction. But somehow it seems a pardon might be different, even if I can't build an argument for it.
 
It came up a bit ago when people were discussing whether Trump can pardon himself.

No he can't, because it's a separation of powers issue. It would negate the power of Congress to impeach, and that's not possible.
 
No he can't, because it's a separation of powers issue. It would negate the power of Congress to impeach, and that's not possible.

Most legal scholars agree he cannot, but it has never been tested before SCOTUS.
Congress (IIRC) can impeach for high crimes and misdemeanors. If he pardon himself, could it be considered a high crime and Congress if the votes were there, impeach, then it would be of to SCOTUS???
 
Most legal scholars agree he cannot, but it has never been tested before SCOTUS.
Congress (IIRC) can impeach for high crimes and misdemeanors. If he pardon himself, could it be considered a high crime and Congress if the votes were there, impeach, then it would be of to SCOTUS???

To pardon himself, he would have to have already committed a crime.
 
Was Nixon convicted of any crime(s)?

No, and neither would that be necessary before Congress would have opportunity to impeach.
 
I understand that the President has pretty much no limits on his ability to pardon someone for a crime, but if it's used specifically to pardon people that may be able to testify against the president for crimes he has committed in order to prevent prosecutors from turning another criminal against the president where is anywhere could a line be drawn. If Mueller says to someone like Manfort I'll let you off easy in exchange for testimony against Trump, Manfort can just say, "Why? Trump will pardon me of anything you convict me of anyway. So who cares?"

What if anything prevents the president from using his ability to pardon someone else to keep turncoats from testifying against his own crimes?

The pardon is a power used to reduce or expunge the punishment of a federal crime.

In the case that one is convicted of being in contempt of court for violating the constitutional rights of citizens, one could make the case that pardoning such a conviction would constitute an attempt by the executive branch to prevent the judicial branch from upholding constitutional rights.

Such a pardon could be challenged by the courts or used as grounds for impeachment. We're in uncharted territory because we've never before had a ruthless dictator who was eager to forsake constitutional rights serve as president.
 
No, and neither would that be necessary before Congress would have opportunity to impeach.

So no crimes convicted of then pardoned.
If he was not pardoned, could Congress still impeach after he resigned?
If so, what penalty could they assign?
To pardon himself, he would have to have already committed a crime.
Now to Trump- no convictions as you noted was needed, and for the sake of discussion he pardons himself.
My opinion- Off to SCOTUS.
Though I have another opinion that if such arose, similar to Nixon, he resigns and Pence pardons him.
 
So no crimes convicted of then pardoned.
If he was not pardoned, could Congress still impeach after he resigned?
If so, what penalty could they assign?

If he was not pardoned and then resigned, he could be indicted.
 
No he can't, because it's a separation of powers issue. It would negate the power of Congress to impeach, and that's not possible.

Pardons don't protect one from impeachment.
 
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