Page 3 of 6 FirstFirst 12345 ... LastLast
Results 21 to 30 of 59

Thread: Could a pardon itself be considered obstruction of justice?

  1. #21
    Sage

    Join Date
    Jul 2015
    Location
    Colorado
    Last Seen
    02-13-18 @ 07:59 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Liberal
    Posts
    36,073

    Re: Could a pardon itself be considered obstruction of justice?

    Quote Originally Posted by MrWonka View Post
    I understand that the President has pretty much no limits on his ability to pardon someone for a crime, but if it's used specifically to pardon people that may be able to testify against the president for crimes he has committed in order to prevent prosecutors from turning another criminal against the president where is anywhere could a line be drawn. If Mueller says to someone like Manfort I'll let you off easy in exchange for testimony against Trump, Manfort can just say, "Why? Trump will pardon me of anything you convict me of anyway. So who cares?"

    What if anything prevents the president from using his ability to pardon someone else to keep turncoats from testifying against his own crimes?
    The pardon is a power used to reduce or expunge the punishment of a federal crime.

    In the case that one is convicted of being in contempt of court for violating the constitutional rights of citizens, one could make the case that pardoning such a conviction would constitute an attempt by the executive branch to prevent the judicial branch from upholding constitutional rights.

    Such a pardon could be challenged by the courts or used as grounds for impeachment. We're in uncharted territory because we've never before had a ruthless dictator who was eager to forsake constitutional rights serve as president.

  2. #22
    A tad Kwazy


    JANFU's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    Location
    East Coast Canada
    Last Seen
    @
    Gender
    Lean
    Slightly Liberal
    Posts
    22,502

    Re: Could a pardon itself be considered obstruction of justice?

    Quote Originally Posted by American View Post
    No, and neither would that be necessary before Congress would have opportunity to impeach.
    So no crimes convicted of then pardoned.
    If he was not pardoned, could Congress still impeach after he resigned?
    If so, what penalty could they assign?
    Quote Originally Posted by American View Post
    To pardon himself, he would have to have already committed a crime.
    Now to Trump- no convictions as you noted was needed, and for the sake of discussion he pardons himself.
    My opinion- Off to SCOTUS.
    Though I have another opinion that if such arose, similar to Nixon, he resigns and Pence pardons him.
    Quote Originally Posted by RAMOSS View Post
    I hope to die in my sleep like my grandfather, not screaming in terror like my grandfather's passengers.

  3. #23
    Professor

    Join Date
    May 2017
    Location
    Tennessee
    Last Seen
    @
    Gender
    Lean
    Liberal
    Posts
    2,201

    Re: Could a pardon itself be considered obstruction of justice?

    So no crimes convicted of then pardoned.
    If he was not pardoned, could Congress still impeach after he resigned?
    If so, what penalty could they assign?
    If he was not pardoned and then resigned, he could be indicted.

  4. #24
    Sage

    Skeptic Bob's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    Last Seen
    Today @ 06:10 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian - Left
    Posts
    12,610

    Re: Could a pardon itself be considered obstruction of justice?

    Quote Originally Posted by American View Post
    No he can't, because it's a separation of powers issue. It would negate the power of Congress to impeach, and that's not possible.
    Pardons don't protect one from impeachment.
    Formerly BrewerBob

  5. #25
    Part of the problem.
    Superfly's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    East Coast
    Last Seen
    Today @ 05:06 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Liberal
    Posts
    25,736

    Re: Could a pardon itself be considered obstruction of justice?

    Oh. There.

    https://www.CoastalVeteransAdvocacyCenter.org

    Please visit my website. It's a 100% non-profit for Veterans and their families. You can go there to donate, or you can go there if you are a vet and need help.

  6. #26
    Part of the problem.
    Superfly's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    East Coast
    Last Seen
    Today @ 05:06 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Liberal
    Posts
    25,736

    Re: Could a pardon itself be considered obstruction of justice?

    Quote Originally Posted by JANFU View Post
    So no crimes convicted of then pardoned.
    If he was not pardoned, could Congress still impeach after he resigned?
    If so, what penalty could they assign?

    Now to Trump- no convictions as you noted was needed, and for the sake of discussion he pardons himself.
    My opinion- Off to SCOTUS.
    Though I have another opinion that if such arose, similar to Nixon, he resigns and Pence pardons him.
    Pence can only pardon him for federal crimes. Any charges brought against Trump and company by the NYS AG are not pardonable, because they are state crimes and not federal.
    https://www.CoastalVeteransAdvocacyCenter.org

    Please visit my website. It's a 100% non-profit for Veterans and their families. You can go there to donate, or you can go there if you are a vet and need help.

  7. #27
    Guru


    Join Date
    Jul 2016
    Location
    United States
    Last Seen
    Today @ 09:41 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    3,727

    Re: Could a pardon itself be considered obstruction of justice?

    Quote Originally Posted by Superfly View Post
    And the NYS AG has already prosecuted him (and won) for his Trump University debacle. And the NYS AG is not a fan of Herr Trump. Pretty sure that if not for federal crimes, Trump will go down for state crimes.

    Will Eric Schneiderman Take Down Donald Trump? - POLITICO Magazine
    There was no criminal prosecution it was a civil lawsuit only.

    But we know that Schneiderman is part of the resist movement. He says they are not out to get Trump! Well then what do you call it?

    “We’re not—you know, we’re not out to get Mr. Trump. We’re just out to enforce the law. And if he’s broken New York law, we will enforce the law.”
    Text from FBI Attorney Page to FBI Agent Strozk.
    “Trump’s not ever going to become president, right? Right!?” Page texted Strzok in August 2016.
    “No. No he won’t. We’ll stop it,” Strzok responded.

  8. #28
    Part of the problem.
    Superfly's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    East Coast
    Last Seen
    Today @ 05:06 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Liberal
    Posts
    25,736

    Re: Could a pardon itself be considered obstruction of justice?

    Quote Originally Posted by Common Sense 1 View Post
    There was no criminal prosecution it was a civil lawsuit only.
    Did not imply it was anything but! The point that I was making is that Herr Trump has a history with Schneiderman, and not a good one.

    But we know that Schneiderman is part of the resist movement. He says they are not out to get Trump! Well then what do you call it?

    “We’re not—you know, we’re not out to get Mr. Trump. We’re just out to enforce the law. And if he’s broken New York law, we will enforce the law.”
    You people think anybody that disagrees with Trump is out to get him. It's actually kind of comical. Is Comey part of the Resist movement? Is Mueller? *crickets* Nope.

    And why wouldn't the AG enforce the law if Trump has broken the law? Isn't that kind of his job?
    https://www.CoastalVeteransAdvocacyCenter.org

    Please visit my website. It's a 100% non-profit for Veterans and their families. You can go there to donate, or you can go there if you are a vet and need help.

  9. #29
    Sage
    Excon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Last Seen
    Today @ 12:49 AM
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    33,457

    Re: Could a pardon itself be considered obstruction of justice?

    Quote Originally Posted by Absentglare View Post
    The pardon is a power used to reduce or expunge the punishment of a federal crime.

    In the case that one is convicted of being in contempt of court for violating the constitutional rights of citizens, one could make the case that pardoning such a conviction would constitute an attempt by the executive branch to prevent the judicial branch from upholding constitutional rights.
    While anyone can argue whatever it is they want, the argument you make holds no water because of the fact of Separation of Powers and that the power to pardon Federal crimes being absolute.
    “The law is reason, free from passion.”
    Aristotle
    (≚ᄌ≚)

  10. #30
    Sage
    Oborosen's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2017
    Location
    Dallas, Georgia
    Last Seen
    Today @ 05:58 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Other
    Posts
    5,333

    Re: Could a pardon itself be considered obstruction of justice?

    Quote Originally Posted by bearpoker View Post
    Right. Trump can only pardon federal not state crimes. A Trump pardon would not prevent prosecution in a state court.
    Not to mention Trump pardoning them would be more proof of guilt then they could even ask for.
    ....That is if they can even get to ****ing prosecuting them within this decade...

    Not holding my breath though, especially with their current track record.
    Days since a far-leftist has lied:0

Page 3 of 6 FirstFirst 12345 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •