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Thread: Could a pardon itself be considered obstruction of justice?

  1. #11
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    Re: Could a pardon itself be considered obstruction of justice?

    Quote Originally Posted by bearpoker View Post
    Right. Trump can only pardon federal not state crimes. A Trump pardon would not prevent prosecution in a state court.
    That's not totally true. Ford pardoned Nixon for crimes not yet described. It shouldn't be all that difficult to conjure up a charge if the need arises.

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    Re: Could a pardon itself be considered obstruction of justice?

    Quote Originally Posted by bearpoker View Post
    Right. Trump can only pardon federal not state crimes. A Trump pardon would not prevent prosecution in a state court.
    Where is that written? What is your basis for thinking that? That seems debatable at best.

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    Re: Could a pardon itself be considered obstruction of justice?

    Quote Originally Posted by MrWonka View Post
    Where is that written? What is your basis for thinking that? That seems debatable at best.

    https://www.justice.gov/pardon/pardo...d-instructions

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    Re: Could a pardon itself be considered obstruction of justice?

    Quote Originally Posted by MrWonka View Post
    Where is that written? What is your basis for thinking that? That seems debatable at best.
    The pardon power is exceptionally broad

    It is true that the pardon power is, indeed, one of the strongest unilateral authorities of the presidency. Article II, Section 2 of the Constitution says that the president “shall have power to grant reprieves and pardons for offenses against the United States, except in cases of impeachment.”

    That language carves out two quick exceptions to the notion of “complete” pardon power. Presidential pardons cannot derail or overrule the impeachment process. And they can be used only for federal crimes, not for crimes that violate state law

    washingtonpost.com/news/monkey-cage/wp/2017/07/24/heres-what-you-need-to-know-about-the-presidential-power-to-pardon/?utm_term=.27bd553f0785

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    Re: Could a pardon itself be considered obstruction of justice?

    I would love to know this answer and have knowledgeable legal advice chime in.

    Plenary powers are always subject to obstruction. But somehow it seems a pardon might be different, even if I can't build an argument for it.
    "When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross." - Sinclair Lewis

    The 10 Commandments of Logic - (Courtesy of Abbazorkzog Blog)

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    Re: Could a pardon itself be considered obstruction of justice?

    Quote Originally Posted by JANFU View Post
    It came up a bit ago when people were discussing whether Trump can pardon himself.
    No he can't, because it's a separation of powers issue. It would negate the power of Congress to impeach, and that's not possible.
    "He who does not think himself worth saving from poverty and ignorance by his own efforts, will hardly be thought worth the efforts of anybody else." -- Frederick Douglass, Self-Made Men (1872)
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    Re: Could a pardon itself be considered obstruction of justice?

    Quote Originally Posted by American View Post
    No he can't, because it's a separation of powers issue. It would negate the power of Congress to impeach, and that's not possible.
    Most legal scholars agree he cannot, but it has never been tested before SCOTUS.
    Congress (IIRC) can impeach for high crimes and misdemeanors. If he pardon himself, could it be considered a high crime and Congress if the votes were there, impeach, then it would be of to SCOTUS???
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    Re: Could a pardon itself be considered obstruction of justice?

    Quote Originally Posted by JANFU View Post
    Most legal scholars agree he cannot, but it has never been tested before SCOTUS.
    Congress (IIRC) can impeach for high crimes and misdemeanors. If he pardon himself, could it be considered a high crime and Congress if the votes were there, impeach, then it would be of to SCOTUS???
    To pardon himself, he would have to have already committed a crime.
    "He who does not think himself worth saving from poverty and ignorance by his own efforts, will hardly be thought worth the efforts of anybody else." -- Frederick Douglass, Self-Made Men (1872)
    "Fly-over" country voted, and The Donald is now POTUS. #MAGA

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    Re: Could a pardon itself be considered obstruction of justice?

    Quote Originally Posted by American View Post
    To pardon himself, he would have to have already committed a crime.
    Was Nixon convicted of any crime(s)?
    Quote Originally Posted by RAMOSS View Post
    I hope to die in my sleep like my grandfather, not screaming in terror like my grandfather's passengers.
    Quote Originally Posted by Chomsky View Post
    You're still playing logic games. I hope you've heard every tree that's ever fallen ...
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    Re: Could a pardon itself be considered obstruction of justice?

    Quote Originally Posted by JANFU View Post
    Was Nixon convicted of any crime(s)?
    No, and neither would that be necessary before Congress would have opportunity to impeach.
    "He who does not think himself worth saving from poverty and ignorance by his own efforts, will hardly be thought worth the efforts of anybody else." -- Frederick Douglass, Self-Made Men (1872)
    "Fly-over" country voted, and The Donald is now POTUS. #MAGA

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