Is it Time for a Balanced Budget Amendment for the Federal Government and All States?

Re: Is it Time for a Balanced Budget Amendment for the Federal Government and All Sta

SmartCat said:

In a Real Clear Politics average of six polls taken from May 6 to June 5, 2016 Sanders beat Trump by 49.7 to 39.3 percent.

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/e...s/general_election_trump_vs_sanders-5565.html

Since the general election Sanders' popularity has risen, while Trump's has declined.

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That's all lovely but remember something. Shortly after Hillary Clinton left her position as Secretary of State her approval rating was also astronomically high. Into the 60s I believe which is incredibly good for a well known national politician. Thanks however to bull**** partisan attacks and investigations that rating plummitted, and despite leading Trump by double digits within two weeks of election day a last second witch hunt did her in because the American people are idiots. Bernie is already the presumptive challenger to Trump in 2020. You can expect Republicans to do everything in their power to soil is reputation as we get closer to that date. In fact they've already launched investigations into Sanders wife.

Re: Is it Time for a Balanced Budget Amendment for the Federal Government and All Sta

Southern Dad said:

That's a bold statement considering that Sanders couldn't beat Clinton in the primary.

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Misogyny does more damage in a general election than it does in a Democratic party.

Re: Is it Time for a Balanced Budget Amendment for the Federal Government and All Sta

MrWonka said:

Misogyny does more damage in a general election than it does in a Democratic party.

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So does not campaigning heavily in states like Pennsylvania, Minnesota, and Ohio.

MrWonka:

Your assumption that the people spending tax dollars are trying to solve economic and societal problems is a dubious one and since it under-pins the rest of your argument. My counsel would be to proceed carefully with this line of reasoning. We have ample proof that politicians good and bad will break their solemn promises to the electorate due to other priorities taking precedence, so putting much stock in the promises of those who swear to limit government spending before they achieve power is demonstrably unwise. George Bush senior's famous "No new taxes" comes to mind.

Insults and glittering generalities in your second paragraph are not persuasive arguments. States cannot spend more resources than they have for an extended period of time unless they steal from others across distances or time. Deficit financing might have made sense back in the day when the US was the dominant economic and military power and had a well paying commercial empire to underwrite its debt, but its relative economic power is waning and it can no longer afford to maintain its mono-polar-superpower military might as other states rise in affluence and economic power while the US declines.

First, the interest rates the federal government pays are incredibly low. Just like a Bank the debt we take on is usually turned around and invested in such a way that we actually make more money than we end up paying in interest. The United States would usually be losing money if it didn't run at least a little bit into the red. At the very least though we're almost certainly not screwing ourselves over by borrowing a little bit of money every year.

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Interest rates are low at the moment but the lesson of the late 1970's and 1980's is that interest rates can spike up and remain high for extended periods of time. Thus servicing a large debt can become cripplingly difficult in such circumstances.

Secondly, if for any reason we found ourselves in a situation where we really really had to pay our collectors off, and we didn't have the money laying around we're in no real danger of defaulting because we can always just print the money. Not saying that we should do that a lot, but we can any time we need to, and in many instances it actually would make sense if we did it a little bit more than we currently do.

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Printing more fiat-money without a proportional increase in real GDP is a recipe for inflation or worse still stagflation. Asking the Federal Reserve to pull money out of its metaphorical arse and asking Banks to risk their liquidity by holding such unstable money as the basis for fractional reserve lending and expanding the money supply can have disastrous effects for the whole economy. You are loosing control of the levers of international finance and economic hegemony and the petro-dollar scheme which made the US currency the sole global reserve currency is now breaking down. When it collapses there will be trillions of dollars of excess US currency in circulation and the value of US currency will drop quickly and hard. Then the option to print more money will disappear.

Cheers.
Evilroddy.

Re: Is it Time for a Balanced Budget Amendment for the Federal Government and All Sta

SmartCat said:

If you are opposed to deficit spending I guess you are also opposed to Trump's plan to cut taxes.

Republicans keep saying, "We need to cut taxes in order to grow the economy." Nevertheless, taxes, and growth in the per capita gross domestic product, the job market, and the stock market have usually been higher under Democrat presidents.

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Didn't you hear? Deficits are only a problem when Democrats are in power. Don't believe me? GOP Congressman admits it.

The Republican tax cuts could cost more than $2 trillion over the next 10 years, according to the Times. The tax reform package is being championed by the Trump administration and Republican congressional leaders, including House Speaker Paul Ryan.

“It’s a great talking point when you have an administration that’s Democrat-led. It’s a little different now that Republicans have both houses and the administration,” Walker said Wednesday.

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Re: Is it Time for a Balanced Budget Amendment for the Federal Government and All Sta

Southern Dad said:

So does not campaigning heavily in states like Pennsylvania, Minnesota, and Ohio.

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...especially when the Russians were running targeted 'fake news' Facebook adds in those states (plus Wisconsin and Michigan).

Re: Is it Time for a Balanced Budget Amendment for the Federal Government and All Sta

upsideguy said:

...especially when the Russians were running targeted 'fake news' Facebook adds in those states (plus Wisconsin and Michigan).

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What is it that you all want? A do over? That doesn't happen in US politics. Donald J Trump is the president. I am guessing that you all need to get your plan together for 2020.

Evilroddy said:

The title sort of says it all. An amendment making deficit financing illegal, except in times of declared war, for the governments of all fifty states and the Federal Government. Compliance could be phased in over a five or ten year period but once the cutoff date was reached governments could only spend what they raised in revenues each year. Should this also be applied to municipal and county governments?

This would also force Administrations to come to Congress for declarations of war if large scale (expensive) military operations were to be conducted. Of course there might also be a perverse incentive to start wars in order to over-spend revenues. But after a few such attempts, I think the American electorate would catch on and put a stop to that.

So what do Americans think? Is real and enforceable fiscal restraint worthy of a constitutional amendment?

Cheers.
Evilroddy.

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Would render the full faith and credit clause dead, wouldn't it?

Re: Is it Time for a Balanced Budget Amendment for the Federal Government and All Sta

Southern Dad said:

What is it that you all want? A do over? That doesn't happen in US politics. Donald J Trump is the president. I am guessing that you all need to get your plan together for 2020.

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I want the nature, extent and timing of Russian activities exposed. I want the federal, state and local government to let us know what counter measures, including laws and regulations they are going to impose to flush the Russians and other third party manipulators out of the system.

If it could be shown that Russian activity was such that its plausible they flipped the election (and I think we are already there), then I want an asterisk ("*") forever next to the Trump* name in much the way that Barry Bonds and Roger Maris have asterisks next to their respective home run records.

If Trump* was complicit in this, I want him impeached.

Even if Trump* is not removed from office, the questionable circumstances (the legitimacy) of his election will forever be a question. It will be under his skin the rest of his life.


This is America. We seek to earn what we have; cheating, though it happens, needs to be called out when it does and the cheater must pay the price.

That is what I want.

BTW, I don't think Trump makes it to 2020. D'em Dems will have to deal with a more formidable, but beatable Pence.

Re: Is it Time for a Balanced Budget Amendment for the Federal Government and All Sta

upsideguy said:

I want the nature, extent and timing of Russian activities exposed. I want the federal, state and local government to let us know what counter measures, including laws and regulations they are going to impose to flush the Russians and other third party manipulators out of the system.

If Trump was complicit in this, I want him impeached.

This is America. We seek to earn what we have; cheating, though it happens, needs to be called out when it does and the cheater must pay the price.

That is what I want.

BTW, I don't think Trump makes it to 2020. D'em Dems will have to deal with a more formidable, but beatable Pence.

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You want Trump impeached regardless. Let's face it, you are not happy with how the election turned out. Here's the big picture to your thoughts on this, President Obama and his administration utterly failed to keep this country safe, if you are right. That will go down in history.

Re: Is it Time for a Balanced Budget Amendment for the Federal Government and All Sta

Southern Dad said:

You want Trump impeached regardless. Let's face it, you are not happy with how the election turned out. Here's the big picture to your thoughts on this, President Obama and his administration utterly failed to keep this country safe, if you are right. That will go down in history.

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I think Trump* is completely unfit for office. His presidency is the biggest existential to America we have had since WWII or the Cold War. Do I hate the outcome of the last election: yes. Frankly, I did not think the uneducated vote was strong enough to push Trump* over the edge... and that still may be correct as he clearly had external help. But, I am not interested in re-litigating the election. But, I do want Trump* gone, even if it means Pence. I do believe Pence, at least, can do the job.

Sorry that you feel the way you do about Obama, you do realize your thoughts here are a minority view. I, for one, think he did a very good job of keeping the country safe and a much better job than either his predecessor or successor. Right now, our threats are from within. We are still far more likely to die in a theatre or concert shooting perpetrated by an American than to die at the hands of ISIS, yet we lack the political will to do anything about the former.

Re: Is it Time for a Balanced Budget Amendment for the Federal Government and All Sta

upsideguy said:

I think Trump* is completely unfit for office. His presidency is the biggest existential to America we have had since WWII or the Cold War. Do I hate the outcome of the last election: yes. Frankly, I did not think the uneducated vote was strong enough to push Trump* over the edge... and that still may be correct as he clearly had external help. But, I am not interested in re-litigating the election. But, I do want Trump* gone, even if it means Pence. I do believe Pence, at least, can do the job.

Sorry that you feel the way you do about Obama, you do realize your thoughts here are a minority view. I, for one, think he did a very good job of keeping the country safe and a much better job than either his predecessor or successor. Right now, our threats are from within. We are still far more likely to die in a theatre or concert shooting perpetrated by an American than to die at the hands of ISIS, yet we lack the political will to do anything about the former.

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Of course, you think that President Trump is completely unfit for office. I feel the same way about Hillary R Clinton. Since you do not like the results of the election, you want the President gone by whatever means. What happens when a Democrat wins and we, conservatives feel the same way?

Re: Is it Time for a Balanced Budget Amendment for the Federal Government and All Sta

Southern Dad said:

Of course, you think that President Trump is completely unfit for office. I feel the same way about Hillary R Clinton. Since you do not like the results of the election, you want the President gone by whatever means. What happens when a Democrat wins and we, conservatives feel the same way?

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The big difference, however, is that editorial staff of every single major US newspaper agreed with me, they do not agree with you. It's not about me v you in whether he is fit, the lion's share of persons tell us he is unfit. Conservative newspapers in Dallas, Phoenix and Cincinnati, who had not endorsed a democrat in 75 years or more, actually endorsed Clinton saying that at least she could do the job.

Enquirer: It has to be Hillary Clinton
https://www.dallasnews.com/opinion/editorials/2016/09/07/recommend-hillary-clinton-us-president
Endorsement: Hillary Clinton is the only choice to move America ahead

Sorry, but Trump* is not just another President. He is not just an alternative to, and therefore comparable to Clinton, he is totally unfit for the job. It's not about his politics, its about his competence and his temperament. Most of the Republicans that ran could at least do the job, Trump* can not.

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/other/president_trump_job_approval-6179.html

Its pretty hard for an objective observer to say otherwise. He has a disapproval rating near 60%, which means not only are Democrats disapproving, but most independents and many Republicans are there as well.



The case for Trump being unfit for office is compelling and runs across the electorate.

Re: Is it Time for a Balanced Budget Amendment for the Federal Government and All Sta

Yet, Donald J Trump is the President of the United States and Hillary R Clinton can get into the White House only if she signs up for a tour.

Re: Is it Time for a Balanced Budget Amendment for the Federal Government and All Sta

SmartCat said:

Deficits exist because of the Republican delusion that it always a good idea to cut taxes and never a good idea to increase them. In addition, Republicans like to start wars and spend more money on the military, even during peace time.

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Let's look a the Discretionary Budget PieChart, shall we? Which means the one that the PotUS controls/distributes and shows where the money is going:


Wow! Fifty-four percent goes to just one item - the DoD! (The Department of DumbExpenditure).

Imagine what we could do with just half that money spent improving schools and teachers across the nation.

Just imagine ...

Re: Is it Time for a Balanced Budget Amendment for the Federal Government and All Sta

Lafayette said:

Let's look a the Discretionary Budget PieChart, shall we? Which means the one that the PotUS controls/distributes and shows where the money is going:

Wow! Fifty-four percent goes to just one item - the DoD! (The Department of DumbExpenditure).

Imagine what we could do with just half that money spent improving schools and teachers across the nation.

Just imagine ...

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Add in the deferred military spending known as the Vet. Administration gets us 61%, at least $20 billion of the Energy Dep is military (who knows how it was accounted for in the chart), I think some of the International Affairs money is too....we get to around 65% perhaps.

Re: Is it Time for a Balanced Budget Amendment for the Federal Government and All Sta

Lafayette said:

Let's look a the Discretionary Budget PieChart, shall we? Which means the one that the PotUS controls/distributes and shows where the money is going:

Wow! Fifty-four percent goes to just one item - the DoD! (The Department of DumbExpenditure).

Imagine what we could do with just half that money spent improving schools and teachers across the nation.

Just imagine ...

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How about this... Imagine hurricanes hitting Texas, Florida, The US Virgin Islands, and Puerto Rico... And there not being enough trained and equipped military to come to their aid? There are nearly 10,000 military on Puerto Rico alone right now. The Air Force had to move in a portable air control tower in the US Virgin Islands. I understand that some people do not care about the security of this country. They hate the military, spit on the flag, and support illegals. I get that there are those people. But I find it amazing that you all can't figure out why you lost the House, Senate, White House, State Legislatures, and Gubernatorial Seats. There are only 6 states that still have total Democrat control, as opposed to 25 with Republicans in control. Get the message?

Re: Is it Time for a Balanced Budget Amendment for the Federal Government and All Sta

Lafayette said:

Let's look a the Discretionary Budget PieChart, shall we? Which means the one that the PotUS controls/distributes and shows where the money is going:

Wow! Fifty-four percent goes to just one item - the DoD! (The Department of DumbExpenditure).

Imagine what we could do with just half that money spent improving schools and teachers across the nation.

Just imagine ...

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I agree.....One of the first things the US should do is end its excessive NATO expenditures, and the foreign aid...we can redirect it back into the US for education and health.

Re: Is it Time for a Balanced Budget Amendment for the Federal Government and All Sta

Polar Bum said:

I agree.....One of the first things the US should do is end its excessive NATO expenditures, and the foreign aid...we can redirect it back into the US for education and health.

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All of foreign aid is about $40 billion annually, and much of that is credits to buy American products.

As I've said many times, the federal government, in terms of spending, is an insurance company with an army. That's where the vast amount of federal spending resides, in five areas: Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, defense and interest on the debt. So, if someone is talking about reducing federal spending to lower debt, they are either talking about cutting the big five or they have no idea what they are talking about.

On the topic of balanced budget requirements, that's an economically foolish idea that will result in hamstringing the government. A fundamental principle of Keynesian economics is to use fiscal policy to moderate boom and bust cycles -- run deficits in times of recessions (such as during the Great Recession) and run surpluses in boom cycles, to pull money out of the economy and damper it. Why would we want to give up these tools?

Re: Is it Time for a Balanced Budget Amendment for the Federal Government and All Sta

MTAtech said:

All of foreign aid is about $40 billion annually, and much of that is credits to buy American products.

As I've said many times, the federal government, in terms of spending, is an insurance company with an army. That's where the vast amount of federal spending resides, in five areas: Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, defense and interest on the debt. So, if someone is talking about reducing federal spending to lower debt, they are either talking about cutting the big five or they have no idea what they are talking about.

On the topic of balanced budget requirements, that's an economically foolish idea that will result in hamstringing the government. A fundamental principle of Keynesian economics is to use fiscal policy to moderate boom and bust cycles -- run deficits in times of recessions (such as during the Great Recession) and run surpluses in boom cycles, to pull money out of the economy and damper it. Why would we want to give up these tools?

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Sorry if I didn't make myself a bit more clear....I wasn't commenting on, or advocating for a balanced budget.....I was commenting on our Military expenditures as they apply to NATO and foreign aid; both military and non military.

I don't see why the US should continue to contribute what amounts to about 22% of the NATO budget when some members balk at 2%.

Let the EU have it.

Based upon the conversations I have had with NATO troops here, the EU does not need NATO .....so, let them handle Europe's defense completely.

Re: Is it Time for a Balanced Budget Amendment for the Federal Government and All Sta

Polar Bum said:

Sorry if I didn't make myself a bit more clear....I wasn't commenting on, or advocating for a balanced budget.....I was commenting on our Military expenditures as they apply to NATO and foreign aid; both military and non military.

I don't see why the US should continue to contribute what amounts to about 22% of the NATO budget when some members balk at 2%.

Let the EU have it.

Based upon the conversations I have had with NATO troops here, the EU does not need NATO .....so, let them handle Europe's defense completely.

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I get it now. The U.S. share of NATO is historic and goes back to a time when Europe didn't have the money for defense. However, paying a large share of NATO's budget gives the U.S. clout. We get to use airbases for U.S. operations. All-in-all, neither our share of NATO nor foreign aid, makes a hill of beans to the U.S. budget. If you want to reduce costs, reduce the size of the defense budget by lowering the number of employees and soldiers.

Re: Is it Time for a Balanced Budget Amendment for the Federal Government and All Sta

Southern Dad said:

But I find it amazing that you all can't figure out why you lost the House, Senate, White House, State Legislatures, and Gubernatorial Seats. There are only 6 states that still have total Democrat control, as opposed to 25 with Republicans in control. Get the message?

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Got the message. It's this: You are blind to the sentiment of the American people as regards both DoD and this government. We'll see how those numbers stand-up in November of next year.

As for Puerto Rico, it's "relief" has been a disaster-after-the-diaster. When the French knew that their islands would be hit three days prior, they loaded up the long distance air-planes with all necessary and had landed as the hurricane was leaving. The French sent not only their Army but firefighters trained to clear rubble and save peoples' lives. They also were up-and-running immediately getting many of the vacationers off the islands and back home, along with those who had completely lost their premises (and are now in temporary housing here in France).

Donald Dork could not have given a damn about Puerto Rico and he showed that sentiment whilst there.

What did the Puerto Ricans think about Trump's visit? Read the answer here ...

Re: Is it Time for a Balanced Budget Amendment for the Federal Government and All Sta

Lafayette said:

Got the message. It's this: You are blind to the sentiment of the American people as regards both DoD and this government. We'll see how those numbers stand-up in November of next year.

As for Puerto Rico, it's "relief" has been a disaster-after-the-diaster. When the French knew that their islands would be hit three days prior, they loaded up the long distance air-planes with all necessary and had landed as the hurricane was leaving. The French sent not only their Army but firefighters trained to clear rubble and save peoples' lives. They also were up-and-running immediately getting many of the vacationers off the islands and back home, along with those who had completely lost their premises (and are now in temporary housing here in France).

Donald Dork could not have given a damn about Puerto Rico and he showed that sentiment whilst there.

What did the Puerto Ricans think about Trump's visit? Read the answer here ...

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Actually, my friend, it appears that you are blind to the sentiments of the American people. It is the voters that have given the Republicans over a thousand elected positions in state and federal government since 2009. There is no possibility of the Democrats getting the Senate in 2018 and almost none of them getting the House.

Re: Is it Time for a Balanced Budget Amendment for the Federal Government and All Sta

A balanced budget amendment unnecessarily constrains a nation to conduct itself both during peacetime and in war, but most especially during war. Consider the ridiculous position the United States would have been in during World War II had this been a requirement, and to a lesser extent, the late Cold War.

Re: Is it Time for a Balanced Budget Amendment for the Federal Government and All Sta

Perotista said:

I think almost any other Democrat other than Clinton would have easily beaten Trump.

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Can you imagine a debate between trump and Franken?