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Thread: Is it Time for a Balanced Budget Amendment for the Federal Government and All States?

  1. #21
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    Re: Is it Time for a Balanced Budget Amendment for the Federal Government and All Sta

    Quote Originally Posted by Perotista View Post
    I think almost any other Democrat other than Clinton would have easily beaten Trump.
    Bernie Sanders could have taken Trump easily. Currently he is the most popular president in the United States.

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    Re: Is it Time for a Balanced Budget Amendment for the Federal Government and All Sta

    Quote Originally Posted by SmartCat View Post
    Bernie Sanders could have taken Trump easily. Currently he is the most popular president in the United States.
    That's a bold statement considering that Sanders couldn't beat Clinton in the primary.

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    Re: Is it Time for a Balanced Budget Amendment for the Federal Government and All Sta

    In a Real Clear Politics average of six polls taken from May 6 to June 5, 2016 Sanders beat Trump by 49.7 to 39.3 percent.

    https://www.realclearpolitics.com/ep...ders-5565.html

    Since the general election Sanders' popularity has risen, while Trump's has declined.

    --------

    The Hill

    To fully understand the huge public appeal of Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-Vt.) and the catastrophic unpopularity of TrumpCare, let's first consider some polling and then the truth that Sanders and other Democrats have exposed against "TrumpCare."

    Several other polls have shown Trump's numbers to be even worse, with his unfavorable ratings rising above 55 percent at times.

    The huge popularity of Sanders in the Fox poll tracks virtually all other polling that shows Sanders to be, by a large margin, the most popular political leader in America, and far ahead of Trump, the most unpopular new president in the history of presidential polling.
    Stunning polls show Sanders soaring while 'TrumpCare' crashes | TheHill

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    Re: Is it Time for a Balanced Budget Amendment for the Federal Government and All Sta

    Possibly true but it is the voters who count, not the polls. We don't put people in office through polls. So it is all meaningless. Sorry.

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    Re: Is it Time for a Balanced Budget Amendment for the Federal Government and All States?

    Quote Originally Posted by Evilroddy View Post
    The title sort of says it all. An amendment making deficit financing illegal,

    So what do Americans think? Is real and enforceable fiscal restraint worthy of a constitutional amendment?

    Cheers.
    Evilroddy.
    An idiotic idea just like that of the debt ceiling. All it does is tie the hands of people who are trying to solve our problems and keep our economy running smoothly. If you want the budget balanced vote for someone who swears that they will in fact do that, but don't tie the hands of legislators to some arbitrary nonsense.

    Anybody who would argue for this garbage clearly has no concept of reality when it comes to how government spending works. Sadly there are way to many undeducated bafoons out there that seem to think a federal budget is just like their family budget. They are so anstronomically different it is insane, and to try and manage them the same is delusionally stupid.

    First, the interest rates the federal government pays are incredibly low. Just like a Bank the debt we take on is usually turned around and invested in such a way that we actually make more money than we end up paying in interest. The United States would usually be losing money if it didn't run at least a little bit into the red. At the very least though we're almost certainly not screwing ourselves over by borrowing a little bit of money every year.

    Secondly, if for any reason we found ourselves in a situation where we really really had to pay our collectors off, and we didn't have the money laying around we're in no real danger of defaulting because we can always just print the money. Not saying that we should do that a lot, but we can any time we need to, and in many instances it actually would make sense if we did it a little bit more than we currently do.

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    Re: Is it Time for a Balanced Budget Amendment for the Federal Government and All Sta

    Quote Originally Posted by SmartCat View Post
    In a Real Clear Politics average of six polls taken from May 6 to June 5, 2016 Sanders beat Trump by 49.7 to 39.3 percent.

    https://www.realclearpolitics.com/ep...ders-5565.html

    Since the general election Sanders' popularity has risen, while Trump's has declined.
    That's all lovely but remember something. Shortly after Hillary Clinton left her position as Secretary of State her approval rating was also astronomically high. Into the 60s I believe which is incredibly good for a well known national politician. Thanks however to bull**** partisan attacks and investigations that rating plummitted, and despite leading Trump by double digits within two weeks of election day a last second witch hunt did her in because the American people are idiots. Bernie is already the presumptive challenger to Trump in 2020. You can expect Republicans to do everything in their power to soil is reputation as we get closer to that date. In fact they've already launched investigations into Sanders wife.

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    Re: Is it Time for a Balanced Budget Amendment for the Federal Government and All Sta

    Quote Originally Posted by Southern Dad View Post
    That's a bold statement considering that Sanders couldn't beat Clinton in the primary.
    Misogyny does more damage in a general election than it does in a Democratic party.

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    Re: Is it Time for a Balanced Budget Amendment for the Federal Government and All Sta

    Quote Originally Posted by MrWonka View Post
    Misogyny does more damage in a general election than it does in a Democratic party.
    So does not campaigning heavily in states like Pennsylvania, Minnesota, and Ohio.

  9. #29
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    Re: Is it Time for a Balanced Budget Amendment for the Federal Government and All States?

    MrWonka:

    Your assumption that the people spending tax dollars are trying to solve economic and societal problems is a dubious one and since it under-pins the rest of your argument. My counsel would be to proceed carefully with this line of reasoning. We have ample proof that politicians good and bad will break their solemn promises to the electorate due to other priorities taking precedence, so putting much stock in the promises of those who swear to limit government spending before they achieve power is demonstrably unwise. George Bush senior's famous "No new taxes" comes to mind.

    Insults and glittering generalities in your second paragraph are not persuasive arguments. States cannot spend more resources than they have for an extended period of time unless they steal from others across distances or time. Deficit financing might have made sense back in the day when the US was the dominant economic and military power and had a well paying commercial empire to underwrite its debt, but its relative economic power is waning and it can no longer afford to maintain its mono-polar-superpower military might as other states rise in affluence and economic power while the US declines.

    First, the interest rates the federal government pays are incredibly low. Just like a Bank the debt we take on is usually turned around and invested in such a way that we actually make more money than we end up paying in interest. The United States would usually be losing money if it didn't run at least a little bit into the red. At the very least though we're almost certainly not screwing ourselves over by borrowing a little bit of money every year.
    Interest rates are low at the moment but the lesson of the late 1970's and 1980's is that interest rates can spike up and remain high for extended periods of time. Thus servicing a large debt can become cripplingly difficult in such circumstances.

    Secondly, if for any reason we found ourselves in a situation where we really really had to pay our collectors off, and we didn't have the money laying around we're in no real danger of defaulting because we can always just print the money. Not saying that we should do that a lot, but we can any time we need to, and in many instances it actually would make sense if we did it a little bit more than we currently do.
    Printing more fiat-money without a proportional increase in real GDP is a recipe for inflation or worse still stagflation. Asking the Federal Reserve to pull money out of its metaphorical arse and asking Banks to risk their liquidity by holding such unstable money as the basis for fractional reserve lending and expanding the money supply can have disastrous effects for the whole economy. You are loosing control of the levers of international finance and economic hegemony and the petro-dollar scheme which made the US currency the sole global reserve currency is now breaking down. When it collapses there will be trillions of dollars of excess US currency in circulation and the value of US currency will drop quickly and hard. Then the option to print more money will disappear.

    Cheers.
    Evilroddy.
    Last edited by Evilroddy; 10-04-17 at 03:58 PM.

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    Re: Is it Time for a Balanced Budget Amendment for the Federal Government and All Sta

    Quote Originally Posted by SmartCat View Post
    If you are opposed to deficit spending I guess you are also opposed to Trump's plan to cut taxes.

    Republicans keep saying, "We need to cut taxes in order to grow the economy." Nevertheless, taxes, and growth in the per capita gross domestic product, the job market, and the stock market have usually been higher under Democrat presidents.
    Didn't you hear? Deficits are only a problem when Democrats are in power. Don't believe me? GOP Congressman admits it.

    The Republican tax cuts could cost more than $2 trillion over the next 10 years, according to the Times. The tax reform package is being championed by the Trump administration and Republican congressional leaders, including House Speaker Paul Ryan.

    ďItís a great talking point when you have an administration thatís Democrat-led. Itís a little different now that Republicans have both houses and the administration,Ē Walker said Wednesday.
    "I never meant to say that the Conservatives are generally stupid. I meant to say that stupid people are generally Conservative. I believe that is so obviously and universally admitted a principle that I hardly think any gentleman will deny it." --J.S. Mill

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