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Thread: Is it Time for a Balanced Budget Amendment for the Federal Government and All States?

  1. #11
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    Re: Is it Time for a Balanced Budget Amendment for the Federal Government and All Sta

    Quote Originally Posted by Visbek View Post
    So does the following answer:

    Hahahahahaha

    There is absolutely no way that would pass. It would be an utter disaster if it did, too.

    Balancing the budget in 5 or 10 years is pretty much impossible. Nearly 75% of our budget goes to Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, Defense, VA and balancing the budget. Republicans are obsessed with cutting taxes, a move that will only increase the deficit.

    Not to mention that if the federal government cut spending by $600 billion, that would have an enormous negative effect on GDP. It'd cause a nice little recession -- which would reduce revenues, and require even more cuts, which would exacerbate the recession and further reduce revenues, requiring more cuts....

    Last but not least, debt is not a big issue. I've been hearing people bitch about debt since the 80s, and the crisis they keep promising? It never happens. We can easily cover our interest payments, and public debt never actually needs to be paid off in full.

    We also see how state-level balanced-budget requirements (most states have them) cause all sorts of issues, especially for those tax-cutting Republicans. Kansas, for example, slashed taxes at the instigation of Richard Laffer. This resulted in year after year after year of fiscal crises, with the state -- which already spent as little as possible -- needing to raid its rainy day fund, slash education spending, pillage its highway funds, and after several years even Republicans realized they needed to increase taxes.



    Does that include the War on Terror? The war in Afghanistan? Against ISIS?



    Americans are kind of nuts.

    They want services, but don't want to pay for it.

    They will insist in one minute they want a balanced budget, then scream bloody murder when Congress cuts defense spending, Social Security and Medicare.
    So your vote is with endless deficit spending, and ever-increasing debt in perpetuity. I'm shocked, shocked I tell ya.
    Progressivism, ideas so good, they have to be mandatory

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    Re: Is it Time for a Balanced Budget Amendment for the Federal Government and All Sta

    Quote Originally Posted by Perotista View Post
    I'm all for it. I was for it way back when Reagan first proposed it.
    After pushing through tax cuts for the rich and big increases in military spending Reagan had nerve advocating a balanced budget amendment.

    A balanced budget amendment is like a resolution to begin a diet and exercise program six months from now, while in the mean time taking it easy and pigging out on junk food.

    Deficits exist because of the Republican delusion that it always a good idea to cut taxes and never a good idea to increase them. In addition, Republicans like to start wars and spend more money on the military, even during peace time.

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    Re: Is it Time for a Balanced Budget Amendment for the Federal Government and All Sta

    Quote Originally Posted by countryboy View Post
    So your vote is with endless deficit spending, and ever-increasing debt in perpetuity. I'm shocked, shocked I tell ya.
    If you are opposed to deficit spending I guess you are also opposed to Trump's plan to cut taxes.

    Republicans keep saying, "We need to cut taxes in order to grow the economy." Nevertheless, taxes, and growth in the per capita gross domestic product, the job market, and the stock market have usually been higher under Democrat presidents.

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    Re: Is it Time for a Balanced Budget Amendment for the Federal Government and All Sta

    As soon as Republicans demand that the top tax rate be raised to 90%, like it was during the 1950's, that is how soon I will believe they are serious about balancing the budget.

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    Re: Is it Time for a Balanced Budget Amendment for the Federal Government and All Sta

    Quote Originally Posted by SmartCat View Post
    After pushing through tax cuts for the rich and big increases in military spending Reagan had nerve advocating a balanced budget amendment.

    A balanced budget amendment is like a resolution to begin a diet and exercise program six months from now, while in the mean time taking it easy and pigging out on junk food.

    Deficits exist because of the Republican delusion that it always a good idea to cut taxes and never a good idea to increase them. In addition, Republicans like to start wars and spend more money on the military, even during peace time.
    Me thinks you are laying on the GOP a bit heavy. Reagan tax cuts, he had to get a Democratic House to go along with them. Without the Democrats who controlled the house where the budget authorizations begin, where spending begins, there would never have been his tax cuts without their approval. Deficit spending usually has to be a two party street. Not always, but in Reagan's case it was.

    Yes, I find it humorous that a president who ran up these big deficits would call for a balance budget amendment. But I'm still for it regardless of proposed it.
    This Reform Party member thinks it is high past time that we start electing Americans to congress and the presidency who put America first and their political party further down the line. But for way too long we have been electing Republicans and Democrats who happen to be Americans instead of Americans who happen to be Republicans and Democrats.

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    Re: Is it Time for a Balanced Budget Amendment for the Federal Government and All Sta

    Quote Originally Posted by Evilroddy View Post
    The title sort of says it all. An amendment making deficit financing illegal, except in times of declared war, for the governments of all fifty states and the Federal Government. Compliance could be phased in over a five or ten year period but once the cutoff date was reached governments could only spend what they raised in revenues each year. Should this also be applied to municipal and county governments?

    This would also force Administrations to come to Congress for declarations of war if large scale (expensive) military operations were to be conducted. Of course there might also be a perverse incentive to start wars in order to over-spend revenues. But after a few such attempts, I think the American electorate would catch on and put a stop to that.

    So what do Americans think? Is real and enforceable fiscal restraint worthy of a constitutional amendment?

    Cheers.
    Evilroddy.
    Regardless the pros and cons of a balanced budget amendment, I would have to say "no" to the question in your title.

    1. It takes so long to go through the process of enacting an amendment that by the time it IS enacted, it might not be a good time to do so.

    2. We should take the pulse of the left-wing Mainstream Media before considering starting such action. With their power nowadays, they could make such an amendment a dead deal or a shoo-in.

    3. Thanks to the divisiveness created by the Mainstream Media, considering such an amendment at this time would only increase division amongst our citizens. Not a good thing, in my opinion.


    Now...in respect to the pros and cons of the idea, I have to come down on the side of no.

    1. The Founding Fathers didn't put this kind of thing into the Constitution because they knew it would hamstring the government in time of great need or emergency.

    2. Instead, they chose to depend upon statesmen and politicians to reign in borrowing and spending...and the people to keep those statesmen and politicians in line.

    3. You speak about the "American electorate" catching on to politicians using your weasel out clause and putting a stop to it. I don't share your confidence. This electorate hasn't been concerned enough to keep their own statesmen and politicians in line for the last 50 years, what makes you think they'll care now? Because of war? As long as it's not on OUR soil, the American people...as a whole...don't care about war.
    TANSTAAFL

    “An armed society is a polite society.”
    ― Robert A. Heinlein, Beyond This Horizon

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    Re: Is it Time for a Balanced Budget Amendment for the Federal Government and All Sta

    Quote Originally Posted by Perotista View Post
    Me thinks you are laying on the GOP a bit heavy. Reagan tax cuts, he had to get a Democratic House to go along with them. Without the Democrats who controlled the house where the budget authorizations begin, where spending begins, there would never have been his tax cuts without their approval. Deficit spending usually has to be a two party street. Not always, but in Reagan's case it was.

    Yes, I find it humorous that a president who ran up these big deficits would call for a balance budget amendment. But I'm still for it regardless of proposed it.
    Everyone in Congress who voted for tax cuts and increases in the military budget shares responsibility for the tripling of the national debt under Ronald Reagan. Many Democrats in Congress lacked the will to stand up to Reagan because they knew that he carried their districts or states by larger majorities than they did.

    Cutting taxes while increasing military spending was Reagan's idea, so he has most of the guilt for the huge deficits of the Reagan years.

    Currently there is little support for specific cuts in the federal budget, and much support for higher taxes on the rich. That is why Bernie Sanders is the most popular politician in the United States. He almost certainly would have defeated Trump in the general election.

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    Re: Is it Time for a Balanced Budget Amendment for the Federal Government and All States?

    Quote Originally Posted by Evilroddy View Post
    The title sort of says it all. An amendment making deficit financing illegal, except in times of declared war, for the governments of all fifty states and the Federal Government. Compliance could be phased in over a five or ten year period but once the cutoff date was reached governments could only spend what they raised in revenues each year. Should this also be applied to municipal and county governments?

    This would also force Administrations to come to Congress for declarations of war if large scale (expensive) military operations were to be conducted. Of course there might also be a perverse incentive to start wars in order to over-spend revenues. But after a few such attempts, I think the American electorate would catch on and put a stop to that.

    So what do Americans think? Is real and enforceable fiscal restraint worthy of a constitutional amendment?

    Cheers.
    Evilroddy.
    No. It's time that the people of this country got off our asses and started payin attention to business.
    “The people do not want virtue; but they are the dupes of pretended patriots” : Elbridge Gerry of Mass; Constitutional Convention 1787

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    Re: Is it Time for a Balanced Budget Amendment for the Federal Government and All States?

    Quote Originally Posted by Evilroddy View Post
    The title sort of says it all. An amendment making deficit financing illegal, except in times of declared war, for the governments of all fifty states and the Federal Government. Compliance could be phased in over a five or ten year period but once the cutoff date was reached governments could only spend what they raised in revenues each year. Should this also be applied to municipal and county governments?

    This would also force Administrations to come to Congress for declarations of war if large scale (expensive) military operations were to be conducted. Of course there might also be a perverse incentive to start wars in order to over-spend revenues. But after a few such attempts, I think the American electorate would catch on and put a stop to that.

    So what do Americans think? Is real and enforceable fiscal restraint worthy of a constitutional amendment?

    Cheers.
    Evilroddy.
    The US has tried this several times, it led to disastrous financial collapse every time, usually before the policy was even fully implemented. A governments and businesses are not households, and thus it would be completely silly to apply household economics to a business or a government.

    So, no, I think it would be absolutely senseless and actively harmful to implement such a foolish amendment. The US should continuously re-invest in the future. That's how all modern governments and businesses work. But if you want to really see America fall into a second-world nation (I mean, faster than it's already headed there), then definitely pass this amendment.
    "The question is whether privileged elites should dominate mass-communication and should use this power, as they tell us they must [to] manipulate and deceive the 'stupid majority', and remove them from the public arena. The question, in brief, is whether Democracy and Freedom are values to be preserved or threats to be avoided." --Chomsky

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    Re: Is it Time for a Balanced Budget Amendment for the Federal Government and All Sta

    Quote Originally Posted by SmartCat View Post
    Everyone in Congress who voted for tax cuts and increases in the military budget shares responsibility for the tripling of the national debt under Ronald Reagan. Many Democrats in Congress lacked the will to stand up to Reagan because they knew that he carried their districts or states by larger majorities than they did.

    Cutting taxes while increasing military spending was Reagan's idea, so he has most of the guilt for the huge deficits of the Reagan years.

    Currently there is little support for specific cuts in the federal budget, and much support for higher taxes on the rich. That is why Bernie Sanders is the most popular politician in the United States. He almost certainly would have defeated Trump in the general election.
    I think almost any other Democrat other than Clinton would have easily beaten Trump.
    This Reform Party member thinks it is high past time that we start electing Americans to congress and the presidency who put America first and their political party further down the line. But for way too long we have been electing Republicans and Democrats who happen to be Americans instead of Americans who happen to be Republicans and Democrats.

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