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Thread: A Hate Church Makes a Case for Free Speech

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    Re: A Hate Church Makes a Case for Free Speech

    The SPLC calling someone a "hate" group does not infringe on their free speech.

    But the SPLC calling someone a "hate" group doesn't actually make them one.
    “The concept that government may restrict the speech of some elements of our society in order to enhance the relative voice of others is wholly foreign to the First Amendment.”

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    Re: A Hate Church Makes a Case for Free Speech

    Quote Originally Posted by HowardBThiname View Post
    My concern is that by designating individual groups as "hate groups," we're effectively creating an atmosphere that restricts their free speech.
    No "atmosphere" can restrict speech, but more importantly the amendment is a restriction on government preventing them from restricting speech. If SPLC were not allowed to label them a hate group, whether merited or not and who is to say what exactly is that standard, then it would be SPLC's right to free speech that would be restricted.

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    Re: A Hate Church Makes a Case for Free Speech

    Quote Originally Posted by HowardBThiname View Post
    The IUIC has been labeled as a hate group by the SPLC but they reject the designation because they are harming no one. The question is whether the designation of "hate" is an infringement on their free speech. Is it an infringement on anyone's free speech? Is the SPLC oppressing free speech by handing down these labels?

    Their belief is that blacks and Native Americans are among the descendants of the original 12 Tribes of Israel and that at the second coming of Christ (who was black), they will one day rule and white people will be their slaves.

    As with the KKK and neo-nazis, the IUIC has every right to spread the word of what they feel is correct. It's only when they cross the line into harming someone that they fall afoul of the law.



    I-Team: Las Vegas church labeled a hate group - Story | KLAS-TV

    We need to continue to remind people that the bill of rights limits the power of government, not the freedom everyone else. People can say what they like without government intervention. It doesn't include anyone other than the government. The first amendment exists to protect controversial speech. Other kinds of speech don't require protection. The SPLC can say what likes, understanding that there could be consequences for what they say. In this case I would say the SPLC is probably correct and that no consequences will come their way. You have one group expressing free speech without government intervention and another group doing the same. That is how it is supposed to be.

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    Re: A Hate Church Makes a Case for Free Speech

    One thing is for certain. By classifying this group as a hate group, the SPLC has shown that they don't discriminate by political affiliation. They have been accused of only picking on Right Wing hate groups, and not the Left.

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    Re: A Hate Church Makes a Case for Free Speech

    The SPLC can get stuffed as far as I'm concerned. Who put them in charge of deciding whether a group is hateful? Hate speech is not a crime in the US and shouldn't be a crime anywhere else. If you don't like what they say, don't listen to it.

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    Re: A Hate Church Makes a Case for Free Speech

    Quote Originally Posted by HowardBThiname View Post
    My concern is that by designating individual groups as "hate groups," we're effectively creating an atmosphere that restricts their free speech.

    The IUIC has a right to preach what they feel is the truth, even though others may feel threatened or offended. It just so happens that in this specific case, this group feels as though they are the chosen race.

    That's not really different from some schools of thought that claim those of today's Jewish descent are really the chosen people.

    And, it's not a far removed from the white supremacists who believe the white race is superior.

    The question is not so much whether these various groups/churches have the right to free speech -- we know they do -- it's whether being designated a hate group has the effect of infringing on that right.

    Is the "hate" label a form of social engineering designed to make society put pressure on specific groups to silence them?

    This is an especially interesting case, because not only is this church racist in nature, it's also a religion, so it comes under another protective constitutional classification.
    Hate speech, in a rational world, should imply speech that comes from a person while their have hate in their heart. If someone thinks their race is better or the their race is the chosen one, but feels contentment or happiness in their heart, this is not hate speech. There is no hate in their heart. This is just words to build self esteem.

    A good example of hate speech was the leftist mainstream media after Donald Trump won. One could feel the hate and contempt in their voice as they spoke. Yet that was not called hate speech, even though fueled by hate. Black lives matter, hates the police. This is hate speech, based on the criteria of hate in one's heart, fueling their thoughts and speech. Does the IUIC hate the groups it labels as hate groups? Would it reach out in friendship or feel contempt?

    On the other hand, if you say a racist or sexist comment, in humor or in conversation, this is not hate speech, if the worlds come from a heart without hate. One cannot control what others think and feel, based on Pavlov buzz words. If they interpret the buzz words as hate speech, it is because they have hate in their heart; projection. If their respond back with hate in their heart, that is hate speech. This is a rational world view and may not make sense to the irrational.

    The reason this is rational is based on how the brain creates memory. When memory is created, an emotional tag is added to the memory, by aspects of the limbic system, before it is written to the cerebral matter. Hate is one such emotional tag. Hate speech has to do with the tagging of memories, and not with the words themselves, since the same words can have other tags. The comedian can say the same buzz words and induce laugher due to the way it is tagged.

    The problem is to many people on the left has been conditioned to associate anything with the right with hate tags, so they interpret only those groups with hate speech; trained seals. They may not understand the rational of hate speech.
    Last edited by wellwisher; 10-15-17 at 06:53 AM.

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    Re: A Hate Church Makes a Case for Free Speech

    Quote Originally Posted by HowardBThiname View Post
    People have a legal right to hate whomever they so choose. They only cross the line when their hatred morphs into "incitement" to harm others, which is a crime.
    I agree. And not only the legal right but the absolute right, regardless of whatever the law might be at a particular place or time. Attempts to control thoughts or beliefs never end well.

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    Re: A Hate Church Makes a Case for Free Speech

    Quote Originally Posted by APB212 View Post
    The SPLC can get stuffed as far as I'm concerned. Who put them in charge of deciding whether a group is hateful? Hate speech is not a crime in the US and shouldn't be a crime anywhere else. If you don't like what they say, don't listen to it.
    We've seen what can happen in a country, when hate groups grow out of control (Nazis, KKK, etc). Frankly, I am thankful to he SPLC for their efforts.

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    Re: A Hate Church Makes a Case for Free Speech

    Quote Originally Posted by Media_Truth View Post
    We've seen what can happen in a country, when hate groups grow out of control (Nazis, KKK, etc). Frankly, I am thankful to he SPLC for their efforts.
    The Neo-Nazis and KKK are fringe groups with little influence. The broader movement known as the Alt-Right is purely reactionary, fueled by think-tanks such as the SPLC that label them all as racists without hearing their concerns. Racism is bad and the death of that woman in Charlottesville was unacceptable, but demonizing the entire Alt-Right is not the answer. The only way things will ever improve is if, as the Doctor says, we sit down and talk.

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    Re: A Hate Church Makes a Case for Free Speech

    Quote Originally Posted by APB212 View Post
    The Neo-Nazis and KKK are fringe groups with little influence. The broader movement known as the Alt-Right is purely reactionary, fueled by think-tanks such as the SPLC that label them all as racists without hearing their concerns. Racism is bad and the death of that woman in Charlottesville was unacceptable, but demonizing the entire Alt-Right is not the answer. The only way things will ever improve is if, as the Doctor says, we sit down and talk.
    Kind of off-Topic, because the cited all-black church is not ALT-Right at all. Still the SPLC has them listed as a hate group. Kind of disproves your claim. Personally, I can't stand the bigotry and bias that I have witnessed on FOX News.
    Last edited by Media_Truth; 10-15-17 at 10:00 PM.

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