• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Is the division of church and state on shaky ground?

presluc

DP Veteran
Joined
May 17, 2009
Messages
10,967
Reaction score
2,134
Location
Ohio
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
Some time ago a President Johnson submitted an amendment to the Constitution basically saying that since Organized Religion did not pay taxes they should be limited on their involvement with politics.
I agree with this I have faith in God. Religion should not be allowed to endorse any political leader unless done privately as a private citizen nor should they criticize any political party while at church.

There has been rumors that the Republican party wishes to repeal this amendment of division of Church and State.
Well the Republican parties main voter base id Religion so they would win.

However although many might say I don;t care about politics, this has nothing to do with me.
A question; after Organized Religion gets their hands into politics you think there will stop there?
What of legalized Marijuana
What of Same sex marriages
What of abortion
What of censorship
What of Freedom of the press
Freedom of speech
Organized Religion might set their sights on these as well.:peace
 
Some time ago a President Johnson submitted an amendment to the Constitution basically saying that since Organized Religion did not pay taxes they should be limited on their involvement with politics.
I agree with this I have faith in God. Religion should not be allowed to endorse any political leader unless done privately as a private citizen nor should they criticize any political party while at church.

There has been rumors that the Republican party wishes to repeal this amendment of division of Church and State.
Well the Republican parties main voter base id Religion so they would win.

There is no such amendment to be repealed.
 
The problem is the first amendment and the ability of the government to police who is breaking the "speech law".

Many ethnic churches are ignored for mixing politics and the pulpit, and are not ashamed to tell their flock how to vote. One of the reasons churches are tax exempt is the get most of their revenue from donations. the other things are mostly contributions that are sold like bake sales, etc. There just isn't a lot there compared to the trillions in other non-profits that are political.

BTW, church paychecks are taxed.
 
Some time ago a President Johnson submitted an amendment to the Constitution basically saying that since Organized Religion did not pay taxes they should be limited on their involvement with politics.
I agree with this I have faith in God. Religion should not be allowed to endorse any political leader unless done privately as a private citizen nor should they criticize any political party while at church.

There has been rumors that the Republican party wishes to repeal this amendment of division of Church and State.
Well the Republican parties main voter base id Religion so they would win.

However although many might say I don;t care about politics, this has nothing to do with me.
A question; after Organized Religion gets their hands into politics you think there will stop there?
What of legalized Marijuana
What of Same sex marriages
What of abortion
What of censorship
What of Freedom of the press
Freedom of speech
Organized Religion might set their sights on these as well.:peace



IMO religion needs to be kept as far away from politics as possible, and politics needs to be kept as far away from religion as possible

if we want the rise of The American Taliban, then go ahead & mix the two; see what we get ........
 
Make no mistake, religious folks are already into politics and they're not engaged in anything everyone else isn't. We all want the political advantage so we can impose our beliefs/values/morals on others to some degree. I don't want universal health care, for example, yet there are those who want to force it on me. Folks using their religious beliefs to inform their politics is no more nefarious or dangerous than anyone else using their own moral or ethical beliefs.
 
The problem is the first amendment and the ability of the government to police who is breaking the "speech law".

Many ethnic churches are ignored for mixing politics and the pulpit, and are not ashamed to tell their flock how to vote. One of the reasons churches are tax exempt is the get most of their revenue from donations. the other things are mostly contributions that are sold like bake sales, etc. There just isn't a lot there compared to the trillions in other non-profits that are political.

BTW, church paychecks are taxed.

Perhaps but I don't think God is into politics.:peace
 
If you say so.
You do recall the name of this thread do you not.:peace

It's not that I "say so," it's that there is no such amendment. You ask if separation of church and state is on "shaky ground" because the Republicans are supposedly proposing to repeal a Constitutional amendment. But that amendment does not exist.
 
IMO religion needs to be kept as far away from politics as possible, and politics needs to be kept as far away from religion as possible

if we want the rise of The American Taliban, then go ahead & mix the two; see what we get ........

I agree with that I think people are overlooking something there are more than the Christian religion in America and not all Churches have Cross on their roof.:peace
 
Make no mistake, religious folks are already into politics and they're not engaged in anything everyone else isn't. We all want the political advantage so we can impose our beliefs/values/morals on others to some degree. I don't want universal health care, for example, yet there are those who want to force it on me. Folks using their religious beliefs to inform their politics is no more nefarious or dangerous than anyone else using their own moral or ethical beliefs.

The division of Church and state should stand .
If you let the Christian organized Religion into politics Then what of the Jewish , The Muslims ect. would they not have a hand in politics as well?
Would organized religion , any Religion stop after they got into politics.?
What about organized religion who want to tell people who they can't marry?
What about organized Religion who tells a woman she must have a baby whether she can afford it don't want it or not.
What about organized religion against legalizing Marijuana although it is sold on the streets of America everyday??
It would seem like there are those who want to force their beliefs on a lot of people.
If the division of Church and State falls they might be in a position to do it. .:peace
 
The division of Church and state should stand .
If you let the Christian organized Religion into politics Then what of the Jewish , The Muslims ect. would they not have a hand in politics as well?
Would organized religion , any Religion stop after they got into politics.?
What about organized religion who want to tell people who they can't marry?
What about organized Religion who tells a woman she must have a baby whether she can afford it don't want it or not.
What about organized religion against legalizing Marijuana although it is sold on the streets of America everyday??
It would seem like there are those who want to force their beliefs on a lot of people.
If the division of Church and State falls they might be in a position to do it. .:peace

Religion is already in politics. Everyone wants to force their beliefs on others, to some extent. Religious folks are no better or worse in that regard.
 
It's not that I "say so," it's that there is no such amendment. You ask if separation of church and state is on "shaky ground" because the Republicans are supposedly proposing to repeal a Constitutional amendment. But that amendment does not exist.

Very well forget about the amendment heard some preacher on the late night talking about it , should have known better.
However the question of the thread is still the same "Is the division of Church and State on shaky ground?
That looks like a question to me an interrogative sentence . To be answered with a statement or opinion concerning said question.
Your first post I let slide, cause I don't know you., but after 2 post no answer or even an opinion.
I don't think I need any help telling me or saying what I'm asking I'm pretty sure I know.:peace
 
Religion is already in politics. Everyone wants to force their beliefs on others, to some extent. Religious folks are no better or worse in that regard.

There are more than one religion in America.:peace
 
Some time ago a President Johnson submitted an amendment to the Constitution basically saying that since Organized Religion did not pay taxes they should be limited on their involvement with politics.
I agree with this I have faith in God. Religion should not be allowed to endorse any political leader unless done privately as a private citizen nor should they criticize any political party while at church.

There has been rumors that the Republican party wishes to repeal this amendment of division of Church and State.
Well the Republican parties main voter base id Religion so they would win.

However although many might say I don;t care about politics, this has nothing to do with me.
A question; after Organized Religion gets their hands into politics you think there will stop there?
What of legalized Marijuana
What of Same sex marriages
What of abortion
What of censorship
What of Freedom of the press
Freedom of speech
Organized Religion might set their sights on these as well.:peace

There is no amendment in the Constitution which states what you say here. There IS a regulation in the IRS tax code however that says it. Regulations and laws are not the same as a Constitutional amendment. I believe that you are confusing the 1st Amendment which many say is where the separation of church and state clause is with the tax laws.
 
There are more than one religion in America.:peace

I know that. Are you advocating some sort of mechanism to ensure people are not bringing their religious beliefs into their politics?
 
Very well forget about the amendment heard some preacher on the late night talking about it , should have known better.
However the question of the thread is still the same "Is the division of Church and State on shaky ground?
That looks like a question to me an interrogative sentence . To be answered with a statement or opinion concerning said question.
Your first post I let slide, cause I don't know you., but after 2 post no answer or even an opinion.
I don't think I need any help telling me or saying what I'm asking I'm pretty sure I know.:peace

When the 1st Amendment was made it only applied to the Federal Government. It did not apply to State governments. What changed was the introduction of the 14th Amendment and the equal protection clause, which due to the courts interpretation of it made it to where all the Amendments in the Constitution, including the 1st Amendment where the separation of church and state clause is, got applied to State governments also.

That said, any and all religious folks are quite free to talk politics both in church and outside of church. However no church (IE: heads of churches) are allowed to preach politics from the pulpit IF they apply for and get tax exempt status. In this case the churches are willingly giving up their freedom of speech in exchange for that tax exempt status. Since they are not forced to get tax exempt status it is completely Constitutional and on firm ground.

There are many examples where people may willingly give up certain Rights. Military is one of the well known ones. Can't exactly use free speech to spill all that classified info now can ya. ;)
 
I know that. Are you advocating some sort of mechanism to ensure people are not bringing their religious beliefs into their politics?

That mechanism would only serve as a terrible contradiction. Try to alleviate the connection between politics in church by getting the government more involved in what churches advocate for, no?
 
I know that. Are you advocating some sort of mechanism to ensure people are not bringing their religious beliefs into their politics?

If so its a pipe dream at best. It would be impossible to regulate what politicians may and may not advocate for without seriously hindering any and all political discourse in the Senate and Congress.
 
IMO religion needs to be kept as far away from politics as possible, and politics needs to be kept as far away from religion as possible

if we want the rise of The American Taliban, then go ahead & mix the two; see what we get ........

You should support the Conservatibe agenda, if you oppose a big, overreaching government. For some reason, you don't.
 
Very well forget about the amendment heard some preacher on the late night talking about it , should have known better.
However the question of the thread is still the same "Is the division of Church and State on shaky ground?
That looks like a question to me an interrogative sentence . To be answered with a statement or opinion concerning said question.
Your first post I let slide, cause I don't know you., but after 2 post no answer or even an opinion.
I don't think I need any help telling me or saying what I'm asking I'm pretty sure I know.:peace

The only "division of church and stste" is the 1st Amendment when it says "Congress shall make no law establishing religion". And, that's all it says. It doesn't restrict political speech in a church house.
 
Very well forget about the amendment heard some preacher on the late night talking about it , should have known better.
However the question of the thread is still the same "Is the division of Church and State on shaky ground?
That looks like a question to me an interrogative sentence . To be answered with a statement or opinion concerning said question.
Your first post I let slide, cause I don't know you., but after 2 post no answer or even an opinion.
I don't think I need any help telling me or saying what I'm asking I'm pretty sure I know.:peace

If you take the tax exempt status away from churches (synagogues, mosques, temples, whatever), you'll break down the wall of separation, but not in the direction you're worried about.
 
You should support the Conservatibe agenda, if you oppose a big, overreaching government. For some reason, you don't.


I oppose government denying freedoms which Conservatives propose; two of the biggies posted below

deny women the option of abortion
deny the GBLT community the same rights as other citizens; this makes the GBLT community second class citizens, no, third class ........

Conservatives only like freedom if it applies to themselves & to 'their' kind ..........
 
The only "division of church and stste" is the 1st Amendment when it says "Congress shall make no law establishing religion". And, that's all it says. It doesn't restrict political speech in a church house.

I oppose government denying freedoms which Conservatives propose; two of the biggies posted below

deny women the option of abortion
deny the GBLT community the same rights as other citizens; this makes the GBLT community second class citizens, no, third class ........

Conservatives only like freedom if it applies to themselves & to 'their' kind ..........

If you don't like government regulating marriage, then get the government out of the marriage business. Liberals want the government to regulate marriage, then bitch when the government regulates marriage.
 
If you don't like government regulating marriage, then get the government out of the marriage business. Liberals want the government to regulate marriage, then bitch when the government regulates marriage.


governments have been regulating marriage for a very long time

anyone you ever met have to get a marriage license to be 'legally' married & how looooooong has this been going on???????????
 
Back
Top Bottom