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Thread: 2A definition: "...well regulated Militia..."

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    Re: 2A definition: "...well regulated Militia..."

    Quote Originally Posted by longview View Post
    I think this is a good point, as at that point in time, most private citizens were allowed, and did own, all the same weapons the military
    possessed, including cannon and armed ships.
    You can also you at the inspirations of the bill of rights, to get an insight on what they mean.... if one is not sure. For example.... The Pennsylvania Declaration of Rights and Constitution is even more clear...
    Part 2
    XIII.
    "That the people have a right to bear arms for the defense of themselves and the state; and as standing armies in the time of peace are dangerous to liberty, they ought not be kept up: And that the military should be kept under strict subordination to, and governed by, the civil power."

    ^ there is no question, with absolute certainty... that the Pennsylvania constitution establishes a right to bear arms for personal defense for all citizens.

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    Re: 2A definition: "...well regulated Militia..."

    Quote Originally Posted by PirateMk1 View Post
    In the context of the statement they are fluff and filler.
    I disagree. To me...those three words give VERY CLEAR INTENT as to the type and purpose of weapons declared as the right of the people to keep and bear.

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    Re: 2A definition: "...well regulated Militia..."

    Quote Originally Posted by longview View Post
    I think this is a good point, as at that point in time, most private citizens were allowed, and did own, all the same weapons the military
    possessed, including cannon and armed ships.
    Justice Scalia held that it had to be arms you can "bear" (meaning "carry").

    However.......early militias that faced off against Federal troops DID possess cannon.
    "If I could have gotten the votes for an outright ban--picking up EVERY one of them – ‘Mr. and Mrs. America turn'em all in’ – I would have!”
    --Senator Diane Feinstein (60 Minutes interview February 1995)

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    Re: 2A definition: "...well regulated Militia..."

    Quote Originally Posted by Vox View Post
    Justice Scalia held that it had to be arms you can "bear" (meaning "carry").

    However.......early militias that faced off against Federal troops DID possess cannon.
    There were many cases of individuals who did own every weapon available to the military at the time.
    As was pointed out in post #13
    "Before a standing army can rule, the people must be disarmed, as they are in almost every country in Europe. The supreme power in America cannot enforce unjust laws by the sword; because the whole body of the people are armed, and constitute a force superior to any band of regular troops."

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    Re: 2A definition: "...well regulated Militia..."

    Quote Originally Posted by longview View Post
    There were many cases of individuals who did own every weapon available to the military at the time.
    As was pointed out in post #13
    Obviously, Scalia would disagree that they had that as a Constitutional right. It could even be that he held that opinion because those Militias were pre-Constitution or shortly post-Constitution before the law was settled.

    But he's dead too, so we can't ask him either.
    "If I could have gotten the votes for an outright ban--picking up EVERY one of them – ‘Mr. and Mrs. America turn'em all in’ – I would have!”
    --Senator Diane Feinstein (60 Minutes interview February 1995)

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    Re: 2A definition: "...well regulated Militia..."

    Quote Originally Posted by Vox View Post
    Justice Scalia held that it had to be arms you can "bear" (meaning "carry").

    However.......early militias that faced off against Federal troops DID possess cannon.
    Ok, so what does "bear" mean? To me, it means "convey" and/or "use". I can carry (convey) a rifle on my shoulder. I can transport (convey) a cannon by towing it behind my truck. I can use both when I get there.

    "Bearing" arms against my enemy is similar to "bearing" witness against someone in court.
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    You know, it used to be when you bought a politician, that son of a bitch stayed bought.

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    Re: 2A definition: "...well regulated Militia..."

    Quote Originally Posted by radcen View Post
    Ok, so what does "bear" mean? To me, it means "convey" and/or "use". I can carry (convey) a rifle on my shoulder. I can transport (convey) a cannon by towing it behind my truck. I can use both when I get there.

    "Bearing" arms against my enemy is similar to "bearing" witness against someone in court.
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    Re: 2A definition: "...well regulated Militia..."

    Quote Originally Posted by radcen View Post
    Ok, so what does "bear" mean? To me, it means "convey" and/or "use". I can carry (convey) a rifle on my shoulder. I can transport (convey) a cannon by towing it behind my truck. I can use both when I get there.

    "Bearing" arms against my enemy is similar to "bearing" witness against someone in court.
    Scalia disagreed.

    But then we can't easily legally own an M16 even though it can be carried........no grenade launchers either. F16s are out as well.

    Today's militia couldn't hope to compete with the Federal troops.........technology has outstripped the concept.

    Doesn't mean armed citizens are not a deterrent to government mischief, though.......because they are reluctant to kill us.
    "If I could have gotten the votes for an outright ban--picking up EVERY one of them – ‘Mr. and Mrs. America turn'em all in’ – I would have!”
    --Senator Diane Feinstein (60 Minutes interview February 1995)

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    Re: 2A definition: "...well regulated Militia..."

    Quote Originally Posted by radcen View Post
    The Second Amendment to the Constitution: "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."

    Please focus on only the three words on bold. No thing else, no other part. What do they mean? Is their meaning clear, or open to interpretation?

    Is a militia the people in general, or is it a state-sponsored organized and approved government body? Does the fact that "Militia" is capitalized lean toward an organized government body (as a formal name, essentially), or is that irrelevant? Maybe just grammatical peculiarities of the day.

    If you believe their meaning is clear, why do many people have other definitions? Are they being dishonest and/or insincere?

    Thoughts?
    There are two types of militia according to the government. The unorganized militia which is composed of people who are willing to do what is necessary to protect their state and/or country and is not backed by a government be it state or federal.

    The other type is the well regulated militia which is composed of people who are willing to do what is necessary to protect their state and/or country but IS backed by a government be it state or federal.

    Being "backed" means that they are given support in terms of recognition of their status, money, and supplies necessary to carry out the objective the the militia.

    That said, when the 2nd Amendment was written it was recognized by the writers that the militia consisted of every able bodied male over the age of 16 (think it was 16...can't remember exact age) and below the age of 45. (anyone older was considered too old to serve effectively in a capacity that could get them in a battle) In today's terms that male part would be scratched and it would apply to anyone that's an adult. It was required at the time that all abled bodied persons would provide for their own gun and one pouch of ammo in the case that they were needed to defend the country or their state. If they were called up then they would be provided additional training if needed. Though frankly in that day and age training to use a gun wasn't needed all that much as most people knew how to use a gun in those days as they needed to in order to hunt for their food. As such the training mainly consisted of battle tactics.
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    Re: 2A definition: "...well regulated Militia..."

    Quote Originally Posted by Kal'Stang View Post
    There are two types of militia according to the government. The unorganized militia which is composed of people who are willing to do what is necessary to protect their state and/or country and is not backed by a government be it state or federal.

    The other type is the well regulated militia which is composed of people who are willing to do what is necessary to protect their state and/or country but IS backed by a government be it state or federal.
    Is there a source for that info?
    "If I could have gotten the votes for an outright ban--picking up EVERY one of them – ‘Mr. and Mrs. America turn'em all in’ – I would have!”
    --Senator Diane Feinstein (60 Minutes interview February 1995)

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