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Thread: 2A definition: "...well regulated Militia..."

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    Re: 2A definition: "...well regulated Militia..."

    Quote Originally Posted by radcen View Post
    My thoughts.

    I believe that it is intended to mean all the people, collectively and/or individually. That is my interpretation.

    However, I do know people who believe it means the government's military, and I know these people personally and I also know them to be absolutely sincere in their beliefs. They claim that the words "well regulated" means government sponsored and approved, because, well, who else would 'regulate'?

    I wholly disagree with them, but I do not question the sincerity of their position.
    I think their "sincerity" is motivated by their political lean. If they think it means what it means, how was this enforced way back then? Did the government confiscate guns? Or say that it was illegal to own one?

    That would tell you right there... easily. If you have confusion on what someone wrote... then go and see how that person enforced what they wrote....

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    Re: 2A definition: "...well regulated Militia..."

    Quote Originally Posted by radcen View Post
    My thoughts.

    I believe that it is intended to mean all the people, collectively and/or individually. That is my interpretation.

    However, I do know people who believe it means the government's military, and I know these people personally and I also know them to be absolutely sincere in their beliefs. They claim that the words "well regulated" means government sponsored and approved, because, well, who else would 'regulate'?

    I wholly disagree with them, but I do not question the sincerity of their position.
    It's not really hard to validate that the second amendment is meant as an individual right.
    The lay out of the bill of rights, they being individual rights, except for the 2nd one, wouldn't make any sense.

    Then you have the history of what a militia is, in the context of England and the UK.
    They being tenant farmer, free land holders, etc who were obligated to serve the king.
    This goes back to at least the Norman Conquest.

    I think politicians who argue against it, know, they just pretend to not know.
    While their supporters are a mixed bag of sincere and not so sincere people.
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    Re: 2A definition: "...well regulated Militia..."

    Easy enough and not hard to find the meaning or intent as written by those that penned it.
    Start with Washington.
    "A free people ought not only to be armed, but disciplined..."
    - George Washington, First Annual Address, to both House of Congress, January 8, 1790

    Then look to Madison...

    "The right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed. A well regulated militia, composed of the body of the people, trained to arms, is the best and most natural defense of a free country."
    - James Madison, I Annals of Congress 434, June 8, 1789

    Lee...
    “A militia when properly formed are in fact the people themselves…and include, according to the past and general usuage of the states, all men capable of bearing arms… "To preserve liberty, it is essential that the whole body of the people always possess arms, and be taught alike, especially when young, how to use them."
    - Richard Henry Lee, Federal Farmer No. 18, January 25, 1788

    "The Constitution of most of our states (and of the United States) assert that all power is inherent in the people; that they may exercise it by themselves; that it is their right and duty to be at all times armed."
    - Thomas Jefferson, letter to to John Cartwright, 5 June 1824

    "Before a standing army can rule, the people must be disarmed, as they are in almost every country in Europe. The supreme power in America cannot enforce unjust laws by the sword; because the whole body of the people are armed, and constitute a force superior to any band of regular troops."
    - Noah Webster, An Examination of the Leading Principles of the Federal Constitution, October 10, 1787

    "The phrase "well-regulated" was in common use long before 1789, and remained so for a century thereafter. It referred to the property of something being in proper working order. Something that was well-regulated was calibrated correctly, functioning as expected."

    SO...in their own words...a 'well regulated' militia especially as formed during the time the Constitution was written, consisted of an in place community command structure and citizens well trained and well practiced in the use of firearms meant to to be available to be called up in a time of need to defend the State.

    The intent was that the people of this country have access to military grade firearms any militiaman might be expected to carry into battle to preserve the free state.

    "On every occasion [of Constitutional interpretation] let us carry ourselves back to the time when the Constitution was adopted, recollect the spirit manifested in the debates, and instead of trying [to force] what meaning may be squeezed out of the text, or invented against it, [instead let us] conform to the probable one in which it was passed."
    - Thomas Jefferson, letter to William Johnson, 12 June 1823

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    Re: 2A definition: "...well regulated Militia..."

    Quote Originally Posted by Skeptic Bob View Post
    Somebody gave me this sentence one time:

    "A good night's sleep, being necessary to the health of a body, the right of the people to keep and use beds, shall not be infringed."

    Does that sentence mean I can only use a bed to sleep at night? Can I use it to take a nap? Can I just lay on it to watch TV?
    You can't own a bed at all unless you take a course, pass a test and pay a fee to get a state bed license! This is freedom based on the important mission of the state to be well funded. If that bed is later deemed "high capacity" (sleeps more than one) then it may be banned outright and you can be jailed for merely keeping it in your home.
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    Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.” ― George Bernard Shaw, Man and Superman

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    Re: 2A definition: "...well regulated Militia..."

    Quote Originally Posted by radcen View Post
    The Second Amendment to the Constitution: "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."

    Please focus on only the three words on bold. No thing else, no other part. What do they mean? Is their meaning clear, or open to interpretation?

    Is a militia the people in general, or is it a state-sponsored organized and approved government body? Does the fact that "Militia" is capitalized lean toward an organized government body (as a formal name, essentially), or is that irrelevant? Maybe just grammatical peculiarities of the day.

    If you believe their meaning is clear, why do many people have other definitions? Are they being dishonest and/or insincere?

    Thoughts?
    We don't know........because the guys that wrote it are dead.

    This book is helpful in understanding Militias. One must look at them in the context of their day. They were comprised of ordinary people who banded together spontaneously to fight oppression by wealthy landowners and the government.......sometimes facing off against government troops.

    https://www.amazon.com/Peoples-Histo...history+of+u.s.
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    Re: 2A definition: "...well regulated Militia..."

    Quote Originally Posted by radcen View Post
    The Second Amendment to the Constitution: "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."

    Please focus on only the three words on bold. No thing else, no other part. What do they mean? Is their meaning clear, or open to interpretation?

    Is a militia the people in general, or is it a state-sponsored organized and approved government body? Does the fact that "Militia" is capitalized lean toward an organized government body (as a formal name, essentially), or is that irrelevant? Maybe just grammatical peculiarities of the day.

    If you believe their meaning is clear, why do many people have other definitions? Are they being dishonest and/or insincere?

    Thoughts?
    Try English.
    Progressivism, ideas so good, they have to be mandatory

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    Re: 2A definition: "...well regulated Militia..."

    Quote Originally Posted by radcen View Post
    The Second Amendment to the Constitution: "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."

    Please focus on only the three words on bold. No thing else, no other part. What do they mean? Is their meaning clear, or open to interpretation?

    Is a militia the people in general, or is it a state-sponsored organized and approved government body? Does the fact that "Militia" is capitalized lean toward an organized government body (as a formal name, essentially), or is that irrelevant? Maybe just grammatical peculiarities of the day.

    If you believe their meaning is clear, why do many people have other definitions? Are they being dishonest and/or insincere?

    Thoughts?
    Justice Scalia already devoted many paragraphs and scholarly footnotes to that question in D.C. v. Heller. I agree with his analysis. I suppose a particular person might disagree with Scalia's interpretation of what those words mean for any number of reasons. But I think the most common reason, based on what I have seen, is a simple lack of knowledge and reasoning ability, combined with an irrational dislike of firearms. Many times on forums like these, I have seen people railing bitterly against Heller, even though their comments make clear they have never read the case and suggest they could not understand it if they tried.

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    Re: 2A definition: "...well regulated Militia..."

    Quote Originally Posted by celticwar17 View Post
    I think their "sincerity" is motivated by their political lean. If they think it means what it means, how was this enforced way back then? Did the government confiscate guns? Or say that it was illegal to own one?

    That would tell you right there... easily. If you have confusion on what someone wrote... then go and see how that person enforced what they wrote....
    I think this is a good point, as at that point in time, most private citizens were allowed, and did own, all the same weapons the military
    possessed, including cannon and armed ships.

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    Re: 2A definition: "...well regulated Militia..."

    Quote Originally Posted by ttwtt78640 View Post
    You can't own a bed at all unless you take a course, pass a test and pay a fee to get a state bed license! This is freedom based on the important mission of the state to be well funded. If that bed is later deemed "high capacity" (sleeps more than one) then it may be banned outright and you can be jailed for merely keeping it in your home.
    You don't need a high capacity bed.

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    Re: 2A definition: "...well regulated Militia..."

    Quote Originally Posted by radcen View Post
    The Second Amendment to the Constitution: "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."

    Please focus on only the three words on bold. No thing else, no other part. What do they mean? Is their meaning clear, or open to interpretation?

    Is a militia the people in general, or is it a state-sponsored organized and approved government body? Does the fact that "Militia" is capitalized lean toward an organized government body (as a formal name, essentially), or is that irrelevant? Maybe just grammatical peculiarities of the day.

    If you believe their meaning is clear, why do many people have other definitions? Are they being dishonest and/or insincere?

    Thoughts?
    In the context of the statement they are fluff and filler.
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