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Let's Repeal the 12th Amendment to the U.S. Constitution

Master PO said:
problems of the AOC were trade barriers and trade wars, taking place causing commerce in America to come to a stand still.

the delegates to the convention granted the federal government the power to regulate interstate commerce [among the states]. and to end these barriers and wars.

several of the states have created these barriers to Tesla, to protect the car dealerships of their states, which they are not supposed to do, we are supposed to have free trade accross the states.
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We do not have free trade across the states already.

Try to sell AR-15 mags in NY or a switchblade made in Oregon in California. States have powers to regulate trade unless congress says otherwise, and congress doesn't have to say otherwise. You are mistaking a power with a duty. Congress has a power, not a duty to regulate interstate commerce. If a car maker in Arizona makes a car that doesn't meet CA emissions and smog standards that car cannot be registered in CA, should congress end that too?
 
EMNofSeattle said:
We do not have free trade across the states already.

Try to sell AR-15 mags in NY or a switchblade made in Oregon in California. States have powers to regulate trade unless congress says otherwise, and congress doesn't have to say otherwise. You are mistaking a power with a duty. Congress has a power, not a duty to regulate interstate commerce. If a car maker in Arizona makes a car that doesn't meet CA emissions and smog standards that car cannot be registered in CA, should congress end that too?
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when i mean free trade, i mean the federal government is empowered to regulate STATE LAWS among the states...[states dealing with each other]

these barriers are mean so a Tesla car cannot be sold period, it has nothing to do with emissions.
 
Master PO said:
when i mean free trade, i mean the federal government is empowered to regulate STATE LAWS among the states...[states dealing with each other]

these barriers are mean so a Tesla car cannot be sold period, it has nothing to do with emissions.
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No they're meant to protect third party dealers and predate tesla by decades. Tesla can sell cars in Texas, as long as it's through a dealer.

This is aside from the point, congress has no duty to protect tesla from state regulators
 
EMNofSeattle said:
No they're meant to protect third party dealers and predate tesla by decades. Tesla can sell cars in Texas, as long as it's through a dealer.

This is aside from the point, congress has no duty to protect tesla from state regulators
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congress duty is to end trade barriers and trade wars.

these state laws[barriers] are meant to protect dealerships.. a special interest group.
 
Master PO said:
congress duty is to end trade barriers and trade wars.

these state laws[barriers] are meant to protect dealerships.. a special interest group.
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Please cite the clause of the constitution creating this duty
 
EMNofSeattle said:
Please cite the clause of the constitution creating this duty
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"Interstate commerce clause" is the only thing that would resemble what that person is talking about. I would encourage that person to read SCOTUS decisions that go into interstate commerce for a better understanding. Just because for example, marijuana is legal in Oregon doesn't mean that Idaho has to sell it under "Interstate-commerce clause"
 
EMNofSeattle said:
Please cite the clause of the constitution creating this duty
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commerce clause....."AMONG THE STATES"

as i said, during the AOC trade barriers and trade wars were created because of state laws, this caused problems for early America.

the constitution delegated the federal government the power to end such practices by state governments, which were using laws to protect special interest of their state.
 
Master PO said:
commerce clause....."AMONG THE STATES"

as i said, during the AOC trade barriers and trade wars were created because of state laws, this caused problems for early America.

the constitution delegated the federal government the power to end such practices by state governments, which were using laws to protect special interest of their state.
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The commerce clause does not confer a duty, only a right if it chosen to act. There is no constitutional right t sell your cars in violation of state anti trust and franchise laws. These laws existed for decades, they do not control what products are on the market, only how they are sold. If tesla made the cars inside Texas they couldn't sell them according to the model, so this is not an interstate versus intra state issue, it is purely intra state. The cars can be sold in Texas, in accordance with the long established scheme of regulation. There is no interstate commerce issue at play here
 
EMNofSeattle said:
The commerce clause does not confer a duty, only a right if it chosen to act. There is no constitutional right t sell your cars in violation of state anti trust and franchise laws. These laws existed for decades, they do not control what products are on the market, only how they are sold. If tesla made the cars inside Texas they couldn't sell them according to the model, so this is not an interstate versus intra state issue, it is purely intra state. The cars can be sold in Texas, in accordance with the long established scheme of regulation. There is no interstate commerce issue at play here
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these laws are attempts to protect the entities within the state, these same kinds of things took place before the constitution with states creating laws to protect its own entities from entities outside the state in the same business...this is a business protection law.
 
Master PO said:
these laws are attempts to protect the entities within the state, these same kinds of things took place before the constitution with states creating laws to protect its own entities from entities outside the state in the same business...this is a business protection law.
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Business protection laws are not by themselves illegal
 
Master PO said:
but then a state makes laws to protect its business from business outside their state, thats a barrier.
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It's not protecting from an outside business, a Texas based company is subject to the same scheme of regulation, and the transaction (purchase of the car) occurs exclusively inside the state

If you buy a tesla outside Texas you can register it in texas
 
EMNofSeattle said:
It's not protecting from an outside business, a Texas based company is subject to the same scheme of regulation, and the transaction (purchase of the car) occurs exclusively inside the state

If you buy a tesla outside Texas you can register it in texas
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resignation is not an issue, like emissions is not issue, so why you are bringing this up...who knows

texas like AZ cannot have a showroom and sell Tesla cars, you have to purchase the car from CA, the state laws are protect laws for instate car dealerships.
 
Master PO said:
resignation is not an issue, like emissions is not issue, so why you are bringing this up...who knows

texas like AZ cannot have a showroom and sell Tesla cars, you have to purchase the car from CA, the state laws are protect laws for instate car dealerships.
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Ok cite the constitution clause requiring congress to pass laws to benefit tesla, it doesn't exist.

The regulation of car sales is a state issue, not an interstate. So congress had not failed by bailing money losing tesla from state regulators
 
EMNofSeattle said:
Ok cite the constitution clause requiring congress to pass laws to benefit tesla, it doesn't exist.

The regulation of car sales is a state issue, not an interstate. So congress had not failed by bailing money losing tesla from state regulators
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i already did, the reason the clause is in the constitution for commerce AMONG the states, is to eliminate trade barriers and prevent trade wars, which took place under the AOC.

last time i am going to explain this:

tesla wants to have showrooms with Tesla cars, which people can get into and see and try out, and then order the car direct from the Tesla motor company

some states are saying you must have dealerships within the state which are franchised,Tesla does to want to franchise their business..

the laws created are created to protect car dealerships...they are protection laws.
 
Master PO said:
i already did, the reason the clause is in the constitution for commerce AMONG the states, is to eliminate trade barriers and prevent trade wars, which took place under the AOC.

last time i am going to explain this:

tesla wants to have showrooms with Tesla cars, which people can get into and see and try out, and then order the car direct from the Tesla motor company

some states are saying you must have dealerships within the state which are franchised,Tesla does to want to franchise their business..

the laws created are created to protect car dealerships...they are protection laws.
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Last time I will explain it, a grant of authority is not a duty to act. Congress has the power if they so choose to apply it.

The history of the constitution is not at issue, nor are the articles of confederation.

States can regulate transactions within their borders, Texas cannot stop someone from buying w tesla from out of state and registering it in Texas if it meets regulation, they can regulate sales transactions that occur exclusively within the state, which is what they are regulating
 
EMNofSeattle said:
Last time I will explain it, a grant of authority is not a duty to act. Congress has the power if they so choose to apply it.

The history of the constitution is not at issue, nor are the articles of confederation.

States can regulate transactions within their borders, Texas cannot stop someone from buying w tesla from out of state and registering it in Texas if it meets regulation, they can regulate sales transactions that occur exclusively within the state, which is what they are regulating
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wrong! states are creating laws, [regulations], to prevent a CA company from doing business inside of the state to protect its car dealerships.

its telling TESLA, if you want to sell cars you have to franchise out dealerships, even the FTC says the states are wrong in their actions, however the FTC cannot act because congress has done nothing to solve the problem
 


the Tesla issue is an interstate commerce issue, which is a power of the federal government, because it deals with a state government and a company in another state.

states governments don't have interstate commerce powers.
 
Clapton is God said:
I think since politics in America is essentially beyond hope at this point we should repeal the 12th Amendment to at least make thing more interesting. :)

Imagine if Mitt Romney had become vice-President instead of Biden because Romney came in 2nd place. Maybe Halliburton wouldn't have made 39 billion off the Iraq war if Al Gore was VP instead of Dick Cheney. Who can know? Either way, it would at least make things more interesting. Imagine if Hillary had to become VP with Trump or vice-versa. ha! This would create a whole new element to our polarized political system as the loser would not only lose, but would then have to serve as VP to his/her opponent.

I say we call a Constitutional Convention into session and repeal the 12th and whatever else needs to be done so this can happen just to spice things up a bit. Who's with me?
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If we repeal any amendments, we should start with the 16th and 17th.
 
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