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Let's Repeal the 12th Amendment to the U.S. Constitution

Considering that is exactly the type of government that we have, perhaps its more edible than you think? The US IS over 200 years old after all. ;)

Actually it is not. You presented a scenario where the President is one party and the VP is a different party. That has not been the case for two centuries.
 
AMENDMENT XII
Passed by Congress December 9, 1803. Ratified June 15, 1804.

Note: A portion of Article II, section 1 of the Constitution was superseded by the 12th amendment.

The Electors shall meet in their respective states and vote by ballot for President and Vice-President, one of whom, at least, shall not be an inhabitant of the same state with themselves; they shall name in their ballots the person voted for as President, and in distinct ballots the person voted for as Vice-President, and they shall make distinct lists of all persons voted for as President, and of all persons voted for as Vice-President, and of the number of votes for each, which lists they shall sign and certify, and transmit sealed to the seat of the government of the United States, directed to the President of the Senate; -- the President of the Senate shall, in the presence of the Senate and House of Representatives, open all the certificates and the votes shall then be counted; -- The person having the greatest number of votes for President, shall be the President, if such number be a majority of the whole number of Electors appointed; and if no person have such majority, then from the persons having the highest numbers not exceeding three on the list of those voted for as President, the House of Representatives shall choose immediately, by ballot, the President. But in choosing the President, the votes shall be taken by states, the representation from each state having one vote; a quorum for this purpose shall consist of a member or members from two-thirds of the states, and a majority of all the states shall be necessary to a choice. [And if the House of Representatives shall not choose a President whenever the right of choice shall devolve upon them, before the fourth day of March next following, then the Vice-President shall act as President, as in case of the death or other constitutional disability of the President. --]* The person having the greatest number of votes as Vice-President, shall be the Vice-President, if such number be a majority of the whole number of Electors appointed, and if no person have a majority, then from the two highest numbers on the list, the Senate shall choose the Vice-President; a quorum for the purpose shall consist of two-thirds of the whole number of Senators, and a majority of the whole number shall be necessary to a choice. But no person constitutionally ineligible to the office of President shall be eligible to that of Vice-President of the United States.
 
Actually it is not. You presented a scenario where the President is one party and the VP is a different party. That has not been the case for two centuries.

Read what I said again in that last post. I said that's the way our government works. There is no reason to think that it can't work with a President and VP.
 
Read what I said again in that last post. I said that's the way our government works. There is no reason to think that it can't work with a President and VP.

It would be akin to having a center and a quarterback of different teams.... or a pitcher and catcher from opposing teams ..... its just completely contrary to the idea of a team working for common purpose.

But I give you credit for thinking outside the box. We need more of that. Maybe you are just 200 years ahead of you time and the rest of us will catch up someday.
 
It would be akin to having a center and a quarterback of different teams.... or a pitcher and catcher from opposing teams ..... its just completely contrary to the idea of a team working for common purpose.

But I give you credit for thinking outside the box. We need more of that. Maybe you are just 200 years ahead of you time and the rest of us will catch up someday.

If such a thing really is 200 years out there more then we're not near as civilized as many claim.
 
What action has congress taken on the USA's illegal immigrant problem?

Fill us in.

Passing the immigration and nationality act of 1965
 
Congress is not failing to perform any functions of its job.

Vice President is an office with no real power anyway so direct vote or not is irrelevant

Congress is not failing to perform any functions of its job?

Is that a joke or a misprint? Sarcasm or typo?
 
Congress is not failing to perform any functions of its job?

Is that a joke or a misprint? Sarcasm or typo?

Tell me what you believe they are failing in and where the constitution requires them to
 
That happened 51 years ago.

What has congress done lately to deal with the millions of illegal immigrants in the USA?

Authorize construction of border fence, double the size of the border patrol, increase funding for ICE, establish eVerify, amongst other things
 
Tell me what you believe they are failing in and where the constitution requires them to

in some states Tesla cars cannot be sold cars directly for a floor showroom , because states have imposed trade barriers, this was a problem under the AOC and the constitution was created to fix, however the federal government has not done anything to correct the problem.
 
Tell me what you believe they are failing in and where the constitution requires them to

A shorter list would be where they are not failing, but for the sake of spirited discussion let's use the war on terror.

Article I gives Congress the power to declare war. Members of Congress take an oath to protect and defend the US Constitution, implying they have such a duty. Yet it has never declared a war, instead offering the sophistry of the AUMF.

The Fourth Amendment guarantees the right to protection from unreasonable searches and seizures, yet Congress has given us the USA Patriot Act which utterly nullifies the Fourth. Would you have me believe that Congress has no duty to enforce the Constitution?

The same with Habeas, another privilege mentioned in the document, yet Congress has effectively suspended Habeas by way of several NDAA amendments. They have suspended Habeas at the altar of a war going on over 15 years that they have not even declared.
 
in some states Tesla cars cannot be sold cars directly for a floor showroom , because states have imposed trade barriers, this was a problem under the AOC and the constitution was created to fix, however the federal government has not done anything to correct the problem.

Where does the constitution require congress to shield tesla from state regulations?
 
the 17th is more important to repeal

I'm very familiar with this argument, but usually most people coming from that point of view would say the 16th is the most important amendment to repeal since the purpose of having Senators appointed by state legislatures in a bi-cameral Congress would be to have a check on democracy to protect those who have large property interests. Since the income tax viewed by people in that court as an attack on property, it would make sense to repeal it first.
 
I'm very familiar with this argument, but usually most people coming from that point of view would say the 16th is the most important amendment to repeal since the purpose of having Senators appointed by state legislatures in a bi-cameral Congress would be to have a check on democracy to protect those who have large property interests. Since the income tax viewed by people in that court as an attack on property, it would make sense to repeal it first.
by repealing the 17th we put a stop to the exspanion of goverment by federal law
 
Where does the constitution require congress to shield tesla from state regulations?
the constituition was created to fix the problems of the AOC, one of those problems was trade barriers among the states.the tesla situtation is a barrier
 
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by repealing the 17th we put a stop to the expansion of goverment by federal law

This I do not understand as government grew plenty before the 17th Amendment was ratified. I'm interested in hearing your argument though. How does having state legislatures appoint U.S. Senators stop the growth of government?
 
the constituition was created to fix the problems of the AOC, one of those problems was trade barriers among the states.the tesla situtation is a barrier

What is AOC?
 
I've always believed that a good President and VP team would be two people from the opposite sides of the aisle. That would imo be more conducive to getting things done right than having things done lopsided.

Except, the vice president has no veto power.
 
articles of confederation

Ok got it.

Regardless of the articles the constitution was not created to give any one company market share in a single state. Congress has the power to regulate interstate commerce, there is no conferred duty to regulate in any specific way to a single company's benefit
 
This I do not understand as government grew plenty before the 17th Amendment was ratified. I'm interested in hearing your argument though. How does having state legislatures appoint U.S. Senators stop the growth of government?

i am going to try to keep this short, however if i an not clear please ask me and i will go into further detail.

then our government was created , it was be a true republic of "mixed government", not a democracy, however mixed government does have a "element" of democracy in it.


in a mixed government:

the house is the democracy element of government, because it is direct elected by the people, and presents their interest, their rights

the senate is the aristocracy element of government, because the senators are appointed out of the state legislatures to be the senators who will represent the states legislatures interest, their state powers

the president is the monarch element of government, because he elected by the electoral college, and he will represent the interest of our Union, which is the combination of the interest of the people and the states.



when legislation is created by our elected officials of the House, because the house is only empowered to spend the people's money, not the senate.

that legislation before it can ever be law, must pass the house [the people representatives ]and be in the interest of the people, then it moves over to the senate, where the legislation in order to pass senate [states representatives ] must be in the interest of the states.

and then on it the president, where he is to signed into law it has being in the interest of the people and the states.



BUT something happened, in the late 1800's a movement of democracy in America as a "form" of government came into our government, instead of it being only an "element" of government.

we have a violation of the constitution taking place, states begin direct electing the senators to the senate BEFORE THE 17TH AMENDMENT to the constitution, by the time the 17th is even passed 32 states are already direct electing senators by the people.

you may ask the question, how come the constitution is being violated and nothing done, the reason the USSC refused to hear the case of a republican form of government and considered the issue a political one and not a constitutional one, the the violation was allowed to continue until an amendment was passed.


the 17th amendment to the constitution change the aristocracy element of our government, now into a another democracy element of government, and by doing this REMOVED the states interest in our government, they can no longer protect their state powers from federal legislation which would usurp it.

when the people of the house have the power to create legislation, they will always work to create laws which better themselves, and they will not care about state powers in doing it, but while the states controlled the senate, the states were able to block such legislation which would interfere with their powers.


our constitution created a separation of powers, all powers which are delegated by the constitution are federal powers, all other powers which are not delegated and which concern the the lives liberty and property of the people, REMAINED state powers.

BUT because our congress now has two elements of democracy, legislation is created to grant people material goods and services and to spend money on creating things which are not constitutional powers of the federal government, because the 2 democracy elements of the congress [DO NOT CARE ABOUT STATE POWERS] by doing this the federal government has expanded outside its constitutional delegated powers.

the senate before the 17th is meant to CHECK the power of the federal government [a check and balance ], the senate was to be the GUARDIAN OF THE CONSTITUTION, because the states created the constitution, not the people.
 
Ok got it.

Regardless of the articles the constitution was not created to give any one company market share in a single state. Congress has the power to regulate interstate commerce, there is no conferred duty to regulate in any specific way to a single company's benefit

problems of the AOC were trade barriers and trade wars, taking place causing commerce in America to come to a stand still.

the delegates to the convention granted the federal government the power to regulate interstate commerce [among the states]. and to end these barriers and wars.

several of the states have created these barriers to Tesla, to protect the car dealerships of their states, which they are not supposed to do, we are supposed to have free trade accross the states.
 
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