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Freedom of Speech, Does it need Rethinking?

Henrin said:
There isn't much to say about them. Nothing they said is based in reality. People are not bound to some social contract.
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In other words, you've never studied any of them in any kind of meaningful detail.
 
Opopanax said:
In other words, you've never studied any of them in any kind of meaningful detail.
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No, I have studied them all. Why do you believe in this thing called the social contract?
 
Henrin said:
No, I have studied them all. Why do you believe in this thing called the social contract?
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No you haven't because you have this one line thing about the "social contract." If you knew anything in depth besides quickly reading something off of Wiki or some Rand Paul site or something similar, you would know a lot more than you do. But you obviously don't, because if you did, you would wouldn't keep farting out that one liner.

Go do some work and learn something.
 
calamity said:
But, is there a limit to what people say?
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Uh, if you had even a pedestrian understanding of "free speech" in the US, you would know it is not absolute, that it does have limits.

Why do people rely on a forum to become edumacated?
 
Patrickt said:
...Dancing naked is considered free speech but mentioning a god in a speech at a high school graduation is prohibited. ...
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Is dancing naked during a high school graduation prohibited?
 
William Rea said:
Is dancing naked during a high school graduation prohibited?
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I would assume it is but I haven't been in California for years and it's been even longer since I went to a graduation. Another exercise of free speech, today, is bums frightening people into giving them money.
 
Patrickt said:
I would assume it is but I haven't been in California for years and it's been even longer since I went to a graduation. Another exercise of free speech, today, is bums frightening people into giving them money.
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Dancing naked at a high school graduation would not most likely receive protection under the 1st Amendment free speech clause.
 
Patrickt said:
We should start following the constitution on free speech an have no laws abridging the freedom of speech. It's a simple concept. And, JDog, you do realize that freedom of speech means people are free to be offended and express themselves?
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This is a very simplistic approach, since the 1st Amendment free speech clause does not specify what constitutes as "speech." Indeed, there has been considerable ink spilled by historians, scholars, lawyers, and other academics illuminating the fact the word "speech" in the 1st Amendment is undefined and exploring some of the methods for understanding the meaning of the word "speech."
 
NotreDame said:
This is a very simplistic approach, since the 1st Amendment free speech clause does not specify what constitutes as "speech." Indeed, there has been considerable ink spilled by historians, scholars, lawyers, and other academics illuminating the fact the word "speech" in the 1st Amendment is undefined and exploring some of the methods for understanding the meaning of the word "speech."
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That's fine. But, speech, printed or oral, is clearly covered. How about we withdraw the laws abridging free speech? Then if the liberals want to argue that dancing naked at a kindergarten or strolling down the street wearing nothing but a pair of leather chaps if free speech, go for it.

When liberals want to lie and steal they start by making something complex. Far too complex for the simple citizens to understand. You know, like that right to an abortion in the Constitution. It's hidden under the fourth period in the third paragraph, of the 4th Amendment.

And I noticed that you believe dancing naked at a high school graduation would most likely not be considered free speech you're not willing to go out on a limb with that. I would agree with you that it most likely wouldn't be but, as you acknowledge, it might be.
 
NotreDame said:
Dancing naked during a high school graduation is not likely protected speech by the 1st Amendment free speech clause.
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It's ok, I slipped into this thread without realising it was a constitutional Pharisee thread. Not my bag.
 
Patrickt said:
That's fine. But, speech, printed or oral, is clearly covered. How about we withdraw the laws abridging free speech? Then if the liberals want to argue that dancing naked at a kindergarten or strolling down the street wearing nothing but a pair of leather chaps if free speech, go for it.

When liberals want to lie and steal they start by making something complex. Far too complex for the simple citizens to understand. You know, like that right to an abortion in the Constitution. It's hidden under the fourth period in the third paragraph, of the 4th Amendment.
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Translation: when things are too hard for me to understand, they must be wrong.
 
Patrickt said:
That's fine. But, speech, printed or oral, is clearly covered. How about we withdraw the laws abridging free speech? Then if the liberals want to argue that dancing naked at a kindergarten or strolling down the street wearing nothing but a pair of leather chaps if free speech, go for it.

When liberals want to lie and steal they start by making something complex. Far too complex for the simple citizens to understand. You know, like that right to an abortion in the Constitution. It's hidden under the fourth period in the third paragraph, of the 4th Amendment.

And I noticed that you believe dancing naked at a high school graduation would most likely not be considered free speech you're not willing to go out on a limb with that. I would agree with you that it most likely wouldn't be but, as you acknowledge, it might be.
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Your retort highlights the issue. Your comment of speech "printed or oral" does not ipso facto render both as "speech" under the 1st Amendment speech clause. You provide no principle, no rule, no methodology, nothing for anyone to rely upon to determine, assess, and evaluate, and conclude when some conduct, a writing, or oral message is speech under the 1st Amendment speech clause.

In regards to my qualified and very carefully worded statement regarding dancing naked at high school graduation. I'm fairy confident, based on prior decisions by SCOTUS, and my knowledge of the historical understanding of the word "speech," that dancing nude at a high school graduation can be prohibited without implicating the free speech clause of the 1st Amendment.

The fact I cannot speak with absolute certainty is a wise acknowledgment I am not omniscient. I cannot foretell with absolute certainty a court in the future would undoubtedly adhere to the law and precedent before it or would not identify some nuanced, subtle distinction from prior decisions.

So, I can no more speak with absolute certainty than scientists, in which scientists sagaciously concede their conclusions and statements of fact are never expressed in absolute certainty.

If you think for a moment my careful wording of my claim is any acknowledgement I'm wrong, then dyou are mistaken. It's an acknowledgment, a wise recognition, I'm not all knowing.

But I repeat, based in prior decisions and history regarding speech, I'm very confident dancing naked at a high school graduation isn't protected speech under the 1st amendment.

See Bethel School District v. Fraser, Morse v. Frederick, and Hazelwood v. Kuhlmeier.
 
American said:
Black Lives Matter Protesters Chant for 'Dead Cops Now' in Baton Rouge : snopes.com

Apparently this didn't.

Video Shows NYC Protesters Chanting for "Dead Cops" | NBC New York

I think Snopes is saying this is unrelated to BLM.



Supposedly from 2014.
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It's already been shown that that particular group was not related in any way (other than by the fact that most of them share the same general shade of skin) to BLM. They were marching in a different part of the city at a different time from the BLM march. What's more, that's a relative handful of people...and that relative handful does not speak for BLM or all blacks just as the Bundys of Nevada and Oregon don't speak for all conservatives.
 
Patrickt said:
That's fine. But, speech, printed or oral, is clearly covered. How about we withdraw the laws abridging free speech? Then if the liberals want to argue that dancing naked at a kindergarten or strolling down the street wearing nothing but a pair of leather chaps if free speech, go for it.

When liberals want to lie and steal they start by making something complex. Far too complex for the simple citizens to understand. You know, like that right to an abortion in the Constitution. It's hidden under the fourth period in the third paragraph, of the 4th Amendment.

And I noticed that you believe dancing naked at a high school graduation would most likely not be considered free speech you're not willing to go out on a limb with that. I would agree with you that it most likely wouldn't be but, as you acknowledge, it might be.
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There is no Right to "Abortion."

There is a Right to Medical Privacy though...
 
Glen Contrarian said:
It's already been shown that that particular group was not related in any way (other than by the fact that most of them share the same general shade of skin) to BLM. They were marching in a different part of the city at a different time from the BLM march. What's more, that's a relative handful of people...and that relative handful does not speak for BLM or all blacks just as the Bundys of Nevada and Oregon don't speak for all conservatives.
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BLM is not an Organization. Just like OWS the movement is what the people joining it make it. This was BLM.
 
Only The US Supreme Court can decide when speech becomes criminal solicitation.

Otherwise many forms of speech may be criminalized. Violent films are responsible for far more deaths then anti-police incitement.
 
Bodhisattva said:
There is no Right to "Abortion."

There is a Right to Medical Privacy though...
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I'm sorry. I missed the reversal of the Supreme Court on the abortion issue. I don't know how that slipped passed me. I could have sworn the liberal right to abortion was the considered opinion of a Supreme Court. Guess I slept through it. And, where is that right to medical privacy in the Constitution. Is it right under the section about abortion?
 
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