Women - What are you feelings about "giving away the milk for free".

[Omega Man]

Yep. You can state the obvious quite well. Like others you ignore the fact that we talked via phone and text for 4 months. You consider that insignificant. Like several others you're ignoring that significant point and focusing on the "3 dates" because that's what your puritanical upbringing trains you to do. I can't help you, friend.

3 dates is still only 3 dates. And yet here you are blaming her after you yourself admitted that you were the one to initiate the first move to the bedroom - by grabbing her hand and pulling her, in her own home nonetheless. Yeah, nothing creepy about that whatsoever. And now you're here begging the question to other women that the bitter feelings you're demonstrating for us are somehow all her fault, and then you get even more pissy when every single woman disagrees with you.

On a completely related note, one would think after 4 months of phone calls and texts, that perhaps you both would have known where you stand on this particular topic - and yet you guys were miles apart. You share the blame in that. Faulting her however for saying no, or changing her mind, or whatever, and making a big juvenile tizzy over it - that's all on you. I'm in my mid 50's, have enjoyed more poon and more trysts than any dude I know personally, and have absolutely no problem walking away without sex for an evening. Hell, I could devote an entire chapter of my life to those situations. It's a part of life. I just don't understand how a man your age acts like a spoiled frat douche about it. Seriously, I just can't comprehend the bitterness you demonstrate for all to see.

OM

 

[SDET]

You know, C.B. I don't have time to help everyone overcome their hangups. I'm pretty busy with my life, my kids, my job, and the "normal" women I've been dating. Like I said, I'm open to continuing my dialog with her if she wants me to but as far as any more dates? No. Not with Sherri.

See! You knew what you wanted to do before writing this post. You just wanted confirmation.

 

[lurchadams]

She gave you a raft of signals and you read them normally, imo. Maybe she had second thoughts or something? I dunno, the few times something like that happened to me, the woman turned out to be nuts.

Be very wary.

Good luck.

I don't think she's nuts. I think she's a sweet lady that's put the "cart before the horse". She needs to address her issues/fears surrounding intimacy before she continues dating.

 

[lurchadams]

3 dates is still only 3 dates. And yet here you are blaming her after you yourself admitted that you were the one to initiate the first move to the bedroom - by grabbing her hand and pulling her, in her own home nonetheless. Yeah, nothing creepy about that whatsoever. And now you're here begging the question to other women that the bitter feelings you're demonstrating for us are somehow all her fault, and then you get even more pissy when every single woman disagrees with you.

On a completely related note, one would think after 4 months of phone calls and texts, that perhaps you both would have known where you stand on this particular topic - and yet you guys were miles apart. You share the blame in that. Faulting her however for saying no, or changing her mind, or whatever, and making a big juvenile tizzy over it - that's all on you. I'm in my mid 50's, have enjoyed more poon and more trysts than any dude I know personally, and have absolutely no problem walking away without sex for an evening. Hell, I could devote an entire chapter of my life to those situations. It's a part of life. I just don't understand how a man your age acts like a spoiled frat douche about it. Seriously, I just can't comprehend the bitterness you demonstrate for all to see.

OM

Ok, pal. You said a lot of stuff here, most of it wrong. I sincerely hope you feel better after saying it though.

 

[lurchadams]

See! You knew what you wanted to do before writing this post. You just wanted confirmation.

I don't understand you. Did I say I wanted something?

 

[Checkerboard Strangler]

ANSWER

THE

QUESTION

In the situation I described. Your both single. You've known the guy for months. You're alone. You haven't had sex for months, possibly years.

WOULD

YOU

JUMP

HIS

BONES?

There is no HARD AND FAST YES or NO answer.
It is different for every woman and sometimes it is different for different days of the week.
There is no rhyme or reason for it and there never was or will be, it just is what it is.

Jane might say "Damn right I'm hopping in bed with him, it's been three dates and I've been a good girl and I deserve it." but Joyce might want to see how you react to being turned down after leading you on because she needs to see your reaction, and then if you didn't freak out, Joyce calls you the next week and blows your mind.

Barbara had it all set up in her mind, all the way up the very moment lips were about to meet and then suddenly she gets scared and doesn't even know why but she is pissed off at herself the next day.

Alice is hoping that you'll just be chaste and keep on dating her and then get down on one knee with a ring.
But Audrey didn't even really want to "go out at all" to begin with and you thought you had to do the perfunctory DATE thing when in reality Audrey would have been perfectly happy to drag you into the bedroom at 6:30 PM and screw the dinner and a movie.*

*I'll never forget that one first time I encountered that. She kept calling me up and talking, and I finally asked her if she wanted to go out and she confused the hell out of me by saying "she did not want to GO OUT". So why did she keep calling me? (We were both seventeen) and when I came over to her house and her parents were gone, I found out what she meant...it just took me a month to figure it out because I was dense that way.
She didn't have the nerve to say she wanted to get down, she was hoping I would read between the LINES.

 

[Checkerboard Strangler]

It's also not honest for a man to act like he knows exactly how 98% of women think.

Good God I sincerely hope I never figure out what 98% of all women think.
Then they'll be as boring as men are, and I might as well try being a gay guy. Errrr, on second thought, that probably will never happen :lol:

Stay mysterious and confusing, you wee-mungs.

 

[lurchadams]

Your assumption may have been initially true but something you did changed her mind and completely turned off any sexual desire she may have had.

Just how long did you talk on the couch before you moved in for the kiss?

Her pulling back should have given you a clue you were moving to fast.

Not very good at reading clues are you?

You then proceeded to ask her how long since she had been (sexually) with someone! Any sexual arousal she may have had simply flew out the window at that point in time.

Your next move of gently taking her hand to move her towards the bedroom was the last straw. She pulls back and tells you she is not ready.

She was not ready because you were treating her like a sex object. And there was nothing you could do at that point to sexually arouse her.

There was absolutely nothing romantic or sensual in your approach. You turned off any sexual arousal she may have had when she invited you into her home.

She knew you were there just to bed her because you were horny and that you would be a lousy lover based on your inability to accelerate her arousal and only managed to turn it off.

Then you get on a forum and state "I don't understand why this chick is even on a dating site if she has such a puritanical and unhealthy outlook on sex."

If, she hadn't had sex in quite awhile and desired a memorable sexual experience she made the right choice by turning you down.

Your sexual method may be the reason for what you call her puritanical and an unhealthy out look on sex.

Hopefully, you will stop blaming her and look to yourself for the mistakes you made.

imho Roseann

You're making assumptions. You have no idea how I was treating her. I could have been smacking her across the face and telling her, "get your clothes off and get into bed, babe". Is that's what you pictured happening? You don't know me, you don't know Sheri, and you don't have a clue regarding what you're talking about.

I'm a nice guy. I treat women gently and with respect. You're just going to have to take my word that I know how to talk to women I'm dating, pal.

 

[lurchadams]

There is no HARD AND FAST YES or NO answer.
It is different for every woman and sometimes it is different for different days of the week.
There is no rhyme or reason for it and there never was or will be, it just is what it is.

Jane might say "Damn right I'm hopping in bed with him, it's been three dates and I've been a good girl and I deserve it." but Joyce might want to see how you react to being turned down after leading you on because she needs to see your reaction, and then if you didn't freak out, Joyce calls you the next week and blows your mind.

Barbara had it all set up in her mind, all the way up the very moment lips were about to meet and then suddenly she gets scared and doesn't even know why but she is pissed off at herself the next day.

Alice is hoping that you'll just be chaste and keep on dating her and then get down on one knee with a ring.
But Audrey didn't even really want to "go out at all" to begin with and you thought you had to do the perfunctory DATE thing when in reality Audrey would have been perfectly happy to drag you into the bedroom at 6:30 PM and screw the dinner and a movie.*

*I'll never forget that one first time I encountered that. She kept calling me up and talking, and I finally asked her if she wanted to go out and she confused the hell out of me by saying "she did not want to GO OUT". So why did she keep calling me? (We were both seventeen) and when I came over to her house and her parents were gone, I found out what she meant...it just took me a month to figure it out because I was dense that way.
She didn't have the nerve to say she wanted to get down, she was hoping I would read between the LINES.

I'm sorry, CB. 4 months. Alone in the house, her first chance to have sex in years and she's not ready. Dude, if she's not ready now, she's never going to be.

 

[Checkerboard Strangler]

Love the Lurch stories, thanks for sharing!

Dating is messed up lurch. I think U.S. prudishness, sex taboo, etc., really complicates it too. In a way, digital dating has just made it worse, almost like a dirty underground instead of healthy normalcy.

But I think relationships are designed to be messy up front, and there's nothing you can really do about it. Really analyzing it, my take on this is that you feel you were given green lights...the guys were flagging you for takeoff...and as you hit the throttle, you saw the runway was entirely blocked.

I'm tellin ya, it could have been NOSE HAIR.
Nose hair can block runways.

It could have been mouthwash, mouthwash can block runways.

It could have been a move he made or something he said, reminded her of someone else and not in a good way, not his fault but again that can block runways, too.

Or just nose hair...

 

[SkyFox76]

You and others have the right to your and their opinion. I have the right to mine. Don't continue to try and attack me just because your 1940's outlook on life is incompatible with most others.

I don't need validation from others, especially since I'm very happy and proud of the way I approach others socially. You should be so lucky.

Dude you literally created a thread wanting women to validate that sherri was wrong for not putting out. Instead you got women saying no, sherri's reaction was her own and she didn't need therapy for what you deemed and unhealthy outlook at sex. Did you say okay, tyvm for a woman's perspective, I need to rethink my mindset on her? No. You said they were liars (like sherri) and just taking her side because they are women.

So yeah I am so lucky. So lucky I that I try and learn about a person's feelings, fears, joys and what makes them tick, before I find out what color their sheets are. You've been quick to remind us the two of you have talked for months on the phone, online. How many times has the topic of sex come up? Does she like to move into things slow? Some music, hanging out on the couch, some kissing, maybe some dancing. Romantic kind of stuff? She's clearly not the hey you kissed me lets go get it on material.

Did you bother to ask?

 

[Checkerboard Strangler]

Girls can and will change their mind last second. It's odd because men are pretty much good to go, whenever.

It is one of the things that makes my wife laugh hard.
I've been ready even after breaking an ankle and two toes.

She just sat there looking at me like, "are you out of your mind??"

Nope, Daddy wanted lil Momma to help him feel better and some nook-nook was gonna be the thing to do it.

She obliged but she had to laugh, "Are you ****ing kidding me? You have a cast on your foot and you're clearly in a lot of pain and you want to have some fun tonight?"

Yup. I admit it. And it took my mind off the pain, too.
I'd probably be ready if I had a limb amputated.

But girls? You just never ever know. They be like that, it's how they are.

 

[tres borrachos]

I'm 58 years old. I had a date Saturday night with a 53 year-old woman I've been communicating with for several months. Saturday was our third date - I took her to see, "Bohemian Rhapsody" at a movie theater that serves you drinks and dinner during the movie. It was pretty cool. But I just went off on a tangent.

So we get back to her place. She tells me her 2 kids that live with her are staying at a hotel overnight and would I like to come in. So I assumed at that point - her telling me her kids were gone - inviting me in - the fact it was our third date - I assumed she was inviting me in to spend the night.

So we're on her couch, we're talking for a bit, then I start to kiss her. She pulls back. I ask her how long it's been since she's been with someone. She tells me a very long time. I tell her not to worry, I'll take care of everything, then I gently take her hands and try to get her started towards her bedroom. She pulls back again and says, "No, I'm NOT READY!". I ask her, gently why she thinks that is. She tells me she "doesn't know me well enough". This woman and I have been talking for months. She knows my family - where I went to school. She knows who my friends are. We're facebook friends. In my opinion this woman knows me better than most women do when they first decide they want to have sex with a guy.

So the "not knowing me well enough" excuse was bull****.

I don't understand why this chick is even on a dating site if she has such a puritanical and unhealthy outlook on sex. She needs to get off the dating site and get into therapy for her anxiety about human intimacy in my opinion or her cycle of being disappointed and disappointing men is going to continue.

So my question is to the ladies:

It's been possibly years since you've been intimate with a guy. You're sitting on a couch with a guy you're obviously interested in. He wants to sleep with you. What in the world was this girl thinking? Why the **** is she even on a dating site?

Thanks.

Okay I won't jump all over you because everyone else has. So as a lady myself, I'll try to answer your question.

I do think the comment about her kids being gone could be taken as an invitation. I get that. But I also get her comment that she wasn't ready. There could be lots of reasons for that. You and I are from the exact same generation. In the 80s when we were young adults, before AIDS and palimony became a thing, there was lots more "free love" going around than I think there is now.

Maybe she just wants cuddling and companionship. Maybe she didn't feel "fresh" that night. Maybe she has intimacy issues. Maybe she had a bad experience with her last partner. Maybe she was tired. Maybe her stomach hurt her. Maybe she doesn't find you attractive enough to be intimate with, and just wants to be friends. Who knows? Without knowing her it's impossible to know.

My husband was the first person I had sex with, and we dated for a long time before we had sex, at a time when all of our college friends were hooking up nightly, with real partners or just the good looking person from the bar. It varied. If we broke up, it would probably be a long time before I could be intimate with someone else. It wouldn't be a slap to potential partners, just my way of easing back into the scene.

 

[Checkerboard Strangler]

As a guy - I do NOT think you misread the signals. But I also think she had the right to react as she did since until its done its not final.

Perhaps she flirted in there own mind with taking things up a notch but then had second thoughts when it looked like it was happening?

She could have suddenly realized that she got her period fer chrissakes. Five minutes before everything was copacetic and then suddenly "Oh DAMMIT...great timing" and she wasn't keen on saying, "Lurch, I'd boink your brains out but I just got my period" so instead she did the "I'm not ready" thing.

Or...nose hair.

 

[Checkerboard Strangler]

I laughed out loud at that one, thanks SDET

Everything regarding the sexual dynamic with women with you is transactional.

Even downright Ferenghi.

 

[tres borrachos]

She could have suddenly realized that she got her period fer chrissakes. Five minutes before everything was copacetic and then suddenly "Oh DAMMIT...great timing" and she wasn't keen on saying, "Lurch, I'd boink your brains out but I just got my period" so instead she did the "I'm not ready" thing.

Or...nose hair.

Highly unlikely she got her period at 53. The nose hair is more likely. Or chin hair. On her, i mean.

 

[Checkerboard Strangler]

Not true at all. I've dated some really cool women over the last few months. I'm dating a woman now, who towers over me at 6' tall. She's a holistic healer who escaped from a religious cult when she was a kid and has blown my mind with what she knows and with her perspectives on my life and others. She's pretty amazing, pal.

There aren't a ton of women like her, but there are some.

You're wrong.

Wait, I thought you were Lurch because you were way over six feet.

 

[Checkerboard Strangler]

Can you explain to me why the holistic healer I'm seeing, the 6' tall red haired, blue-eyed babe who is currently rocking my world hasn't repelled me?

Are you saying that Melissa should have waited? I've only known her a week. She's polyamorous and I'm pretty sure that's the lifestyle toward which I'm heading. Melissa spends time with several other guys and I'm fine with that. As long has she as time for me, I don't care what happens between her and anyone else. What she and I do with others has nothing to do with us.

What would Melissa see in me in less than a week that Sherri hasn't in 4 months?

Stop thinking in binary terms.

 

[haymarket]

I'm sorry you replied too, then ran like a scared little kid when things got real. Says so much about you. None of it good.

I have always liked your posts on politics. I sincerely wish you well and hope all this works out for you.

 

[Checkerboard Strangler]

I understand what you're saying, C.B. And if I thought Sherri was the worth it, I'd be patient and invest more time in her. There's a couple of other ladies I'm seeing that don't have Sherri's problems or antiquated outlook on sexuality. If Sherri wants to continue a dialog with me, she's welcome to. I, however have already moved on from any hope that anything worthwhile would ever develop between us - not because she rejected me, but for the immature way she handled the rejection. I need people that I hang out with to act like grown ups or I don't have time for them.

You do not know if her outlook is "antiquated".
By the way, I missed the part about you asking her "how long has it been"...suddenly now she's a car in need of a new fan belt.
Dude, never ever ever EVER ask another woman that again.

I mean, you CAN ASK that, but something like that usually gets asked AFTER you're both laying there glowing, and then that question takes on a meaning very different from yours.

Yours...not a good one.
Like I said, I must have missed that, Charis Rose was right, GUARANTEED turn-off.

 

[Checkerboard Strangler]

Then I guess what I'm saying instead of "normal" is "women who are compatible with me, both intellectually and sexually". Sheri is not that person.

Ohhhhh well....

 

[SkyFox76]

Your assumption may have been initially true but something you did changed her mind and completely turned off any sexual desire she may have had.

Just how long did you talk on the couch before you moved in for the kiss?

Her pulling back should have given you a clue you were moving to fast.

Not very good at reading clues are you?

You then proceeded to ask her how long since she had been (sexually) with someone! Any sexual arousal she may have had simply flew out the window at that point in time.

Your next move of gently taking her hand to move her towards the bedroom was the last straw. She pulls back and tells you she is not ready.

She was not ready because you were treating her like a sex object. And there was nothing you could do at that point to sexually arouse her.

There was absolutely nothing romantic or sensual in your approach. You turned off any sexual arousal she may have had when she invited you into her home.

She knew you were there just to bed her because you were horny and that you would be a lousy lover based on your inability to accelerate her arousal and only managed to turn it off.

Then you get on a forum and state "I don't understand why this chick is even on a dating site if she has such a puritanical and unhealthy outlook on sex."

If, she hadn't had sex in quite awhile and desired a memorable sexual experience she made the right choice by turning you down.

Your sexual method may be the reason for what you call her puritanical and an unhealthy out look on sex.

Hopefully, you will stop blaming her and look to yourself for the mistakes you made.

imho Roseann

I'm in agreement with much of this. Sherri could have had some sense she wanted to be intimate so she packed the kids off to a hotel (which in itself is odd to me, don't they have friends?). When the situation was in front of her she realized she wasn't ready thus she pulled away from the kiss. IMO the next move from LA should have been to sit back and apologize if he was coming on too strong. That could have been an opening for her to explain where she was coming from, why she wasn't ready. What she'd be more comfortable doing. Once she pulled back on the kiss, the bedroom certainly wasn't the next move. A long talk yeah, if he had any serious interest. From his recent answer I think his actions showed he was in it for the sex, she wasn't giving it up so he left.

For her, if she was looking for a meaningful relationship (not just a stopover before the red heads place) she found out LA wasn't in the list of nominees and is free to find someone that is.

 

[SkyFox76]

It's not all him or all her...she DID SAY that she'd basically sent the kids away for the night.
I wasn't there, so I don't know if she said it in a monotone while taking off her coat or if she looked right into his eyes and said it while batting her eyelashes.
If the latter, you gotta admit that that would be a huge "YES" signal.
Now that having been said, it is STILL OKAY if she suddenly puts the brakes on at the last second because .... no reason, it just happens sometimes.
But if she did the whole "batting the eyes" while saying "I put the kids up in a hotel tonight", it would explain why Lurch got mixed signals.

Again, **** happens. It could have been as simple as her not liking his mouthwash for all I know, or anything at all.
Since she IS indeed half of a potential coupling, she gets to have the prerogative of putting the brakes on at any time for any reason or no reason, but it would be a bit confusing. Such is the game, it's confusing sometimes, that's all.

I've had single mothers I dated squint their eyes at me and say "the kid's with the babysitter tonight", and sure enough, she meant it as "I'm ready to rock your world". But I've also had women send all the right signals and suddenly screech to a halt for no apparent reason.
Maybe they decided I had too much nose hair and it was a turn-off, it could be any damn thing in the world.

It could be the three dogs humping on your living room carpet when you two walk in.



Just throwing things out there. :mrgreen:

 

[JMR]

I'm sorry, CB. 4 months. Alone in the house, her first chance to have sex in years and she's not ready. Dude, if she's not ready now, she's never going to be.

It's not surprising that you felt a little led on by signals. The problem may be that you assume she thinks like you, and the outcome proves a different reality. She went to some trouble to create an atmosphere to share with you....YOU assume that meant sex.

Maybe she wanted to have a cuddle and some personal talk without the kids listening in?

Maybe she thought the night was still very young, and what was your hurry?

When she wanted to slow things down, you took the opportunity to tell her how you were the right guy to fix her situation, and attempted to lead her into her own bedroom. It's not hard to imagine her thinking HOW do I slow this down? You describe that as terror. The fact is she planned this time for the two of you, and you didn't really consider what she might be thinking, you assumed she was thinking just like you.

I don't think she needs any therapy. It's pretty obvious you think you've given her enough time to "get ready" so there is no need to up your seduction game. Better luck with the next woman. I hope it works out for you.

 

[Checkerboard Strangler]

I'm sorry, CB. 4 months. Alone in the house, her first chance to have sex in years and she's not ready. Dude, if she's not ready now, she's never going to be.

That is hilarious. Alone in the house =\= first chance to have sex in years.

Betcha there's one right around the corner and she could have just as easily gone that route, which is an even bigger YES signal of course...until you asked her when's the last time she'd had her oil changed, LOL.