Why Not Registration and Permits?

[Lutherf]

This is why -

Sutter County Sheriff Alerts CCW Permit Holders About Public Records Request From SF Newspaper – CBS Sacramento

YUBA CITY (CBS13) – The Sutter County Sheriff is alerting concealed carry weapons holders after a public records request prompted him to release some of their information.

Sheriff Brandon Barnes says the San Francisco Chronicle recently put in the request for information about CCW permit applications and permit holders.

The sheriff says he “personally” declined to release much of the information requested, but was advised by the county counsel to provide some data. CCW permit numbers, the names of permit holders, and the dates of issue and expiration have been released.

The SF Chron editor is concerned that his people will be in danger due to the sheriff making a public notice to permit holders of the pending release.

He's worried about his people...how nice.

How about being one of the people that were subjects of his request? How about being worried for them?

 

[Rich2018]

This is why -

Sutter County Sheriff Alerts CCW Permit Holders About Public Records Request From SF Newspaper – CBS Sacramento



The SF Chron editor is concerned that his people will be in danger due to the sheriff making a public notice to permit holders of the pending release.

He's worried about his people...how nice.

How about being one of the people that were subjects of his request? How about being worried for them?

I'm not sure how I feel about that.

I think its restricted information, but again the public have a right to know.

 

[Lutherf]

I'm not sure how I feel about that.

I think its restricted information, but again the public have a right to know.

No, they don't have such a right.

 

[Captain Adverse]

This is why -

Sutter County Sheriff Alerts CCW Permit Holders About Public Records Request From SF Newspaper – CBS Sacramento



The SF Chron editor is concerned that his people will be in danger due to the sheriff making a public notice to permit holders of the pending release.

He's worried about his people...how nice.

How about being one of the people that were subjects of his request? How about being worried for them?

Then there was that city newspaper that released registered gun owners names:

Newspaper Publishes Gun Owners' Names and Addresses By Colleen Curry December 24, 2012

Newspaper Publishes Gun Owners' Names and Addresses - ABC News

Then look at every nation which enacted gun registration laws.

Invariably this soon followed with outlawing weapons and confiscation/enforced buy-backs.

 

[Lutherf]

Then there was that city newspaper that released registered gun owners names:

Newspaper Publishes Gun Owners' Names and Addresses - ABC News

Then look at every nation which enacted gun registration laws.

Invariably this soon followed with outlawing weapons and confiscation/enforced buy-backs.

I'm not particularly worried about confiscation here. Any serious attempt to do that would result a very active resistance. My primary concern is confiscation through a "health care" mandate once a single payer system is implemented.

 

[Drawdown]

I'm not particularly worried about confiscation here. Any serious attempt to do that would result a very active resistance. My primary concern is confiscation through a "health care" mandate once a single payer system is implemented.

That is a bit of a stretch. The reality though not just with permits but with most court things is that public records was a more tolerable system in the pre high tech age. Now those records aren't just mined by snoopy old ladies but by anybody as it is all digitized and if not available for free then available through subscription services.

 

[DebateChallenge]

The reason why its wrong to have registration and permits is because the right to keep and bear arms is exactly that, a right. Not a privilege which would require registration and/or permits/licensing.

 

[Rich2018]

No, they don't have such a right.

Strange how the county council advised on such a release and how the sheriff acquiesced.


On thinking about it, CCW info and gun registration data should be like census date and access to it limited.

 

[Razorsedge64]

The reason why its wrong to have registration and permits is because the right to keep and bear arms is exactly that, a right. Not a privilege which would require registration and/or permits/licensing.

Did they have to register or obtain licenses or insurance for anything when the constitution was written?

Possibly ships and cargo. But doubtful much else. It’s 2020 not 1776. Guns today are not flint lock things that you can stuff in your back pocket.

What happens when we can carry disintegration guns ? Still no registration? So even though the second clearly states “ a well regulated militia “ no registration?


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[DebateChallenge]

Did they have to register or obtain licenses or insurance for anything when the constitution was written?

Possibly ships and cargo. But doubtful much else. It’s 2020 not 1776. Guns today are not flint lock things that you can stuff in your back pocket.

What happens when we can carry disintegration guns ? Still no registration? So even though the second clearly states “ a well regulated militia “ no registration?


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They did have bigger weapons back in 1776 such as cannons which were tremendously destructive and to the best of my knowledge they didn't require licenses or registration.

A right is exactly that, a right. Once you start requiring stuff such as licenses and registration it is no longer a right, it becomes a privilege. Driving on public roads for instance is a privilege, that's why it requires a license and the car you drive has to be registered.

 

[Rich2018]

They did have bigger weapons back in 1776 such as cannons which were tremendously destructive and to the best of my knowledge they didn't require licenses or registration.

A right is exactly that, a right. Once you start requiring stuff such as licenses and registration it is no longer a right, it becomes a privilege. Driving on public roads for instance is a privilege, that's why it requires a license and the car you drive has to be registered.

So a citizen should have the right to register an artillery piece, say an M-109 155mm self propelled gun howitzer.

 

[Noodlegawd]

I'm not sure how I feel about that.

I think its restricted information, but again the public have a right to know.

Does the public have a right to know what videos you watch in the wee hours of the morning?

 

[Rich2018]

Does the public have a right to know what videos you watch in the wee hours of the morning?

No they don't

 

[Fledermaus]

No they don't

Why not?

 

[Rich2018]

No, they don't have such a right.

The freedom of information act on government records.

But we should class CCW permit data as confidential personal info as we do census returns.

 

[Rich2018]

I watched a video on YouTube recently that stated every gun marks a cartriage case differently.

So why not make manufacturers and importers fire a dozen round or so and have the gun's "finger print" registered digitally on a computer database?

Then track ownership of the gun.

Surely even TurtleDude can see the possibilities for crime resolution for that ?

YouTube

 

[manofknowledge]

The reason why its wrong to have registration and permits is because the right to keep and bear arms is exactly that, a right. Not a privilege which would require registration and/or permits/licensing.

Federal law already requires license and permit for certain classes of firearms. Free speech is a right but there are regulations limiting that speech.

 

[Moon]

I watched a video on YouTube recently that stated every gun marks a cartriage case differently.

So why not make manufacturers and importers fire a dozen round or so and have the gun's "finger print" registered digitally on a computer database?

Then track ownership of the gun.

Surely even TurtleDude can see the possibilities for crime resolution for that ?

YouTube

It wouldn’t be effective. Change out a couple of parts and the “fingerprint” changes. Wear and tear will also change it, so after you’ve fired a bunch of rounds through it the “fingerprint” changes.

 

[zsu2357]

If the San Francisco Chronicle was going to be shocked about it, why did they even make the request in the first place?

 

[Rich2018]

It wouldn’t be effective. Change out a couple of parts and the “fingerprint” changes. Wear and tear will also change it, so after you’ve fired a bunch of rounds through it the “fingerprint” changes.

I thought it was the barrel that make the distinctive marks.

Also a criminal is going to use his gun sparingly, I doubt that to many guns used in homicides see the range too often.

Thoughts ?

 

[Chillfolks]

I thought it was the barrel that make the distinctive marks.

Also a criminal is going to use his gun sparingly, I doubt that to many guns used in homicides see the range too often.

Thoughts ?

It's easy to alter the barrel with basic tools in the typical junk drawer if one wishes to do so. While currently it is most likely done, if the ever was an idiotic mandatory registration program that kept the ballistic fingerprints on all firearms I can see how that would become a common practice of stolen guns.

 

[Rich2018]

It's easy to alter the barrel with basic tools in the typical junk drawer if one wishes to do so. While currently it is most likely done, if the ever was an idiotic mandatory registration program that kept the ballistic fingerprints on all firearms I can see how that would become a common practice of stolen guns.

Doesn't that mess up the rifling ?

 

[Chillfolks]

Doesn't that mess up the rifling ?

Yes it would and would also have an impact on accuracy. However when you're looking at handgun use it at close range it would have minimal if any impact.

 

[TurtleDude]

So a citizen should have the right to register an artillery piece, say an M-109 155mm self propelled gun howitzer.

are those arms-

or arms that citizens would normally keep and BEAR?

 

[TurtleDude]

Yes it would and would also have an impact on accuracy. However when you're looking at handgun use it at close range it would have minimal if any impact.

you can change out the barrel of a glock, a Beretta 92, a colt 1911, a browning HP and most other centerfire semi autos in less than 2 minutes.