School Shootings: The 'Elephant in the Room'

[xMathFanx]

School Shootings: The 'Elephant in the Room'

Part I:

The "elephant in the room" for (many) of these mass school shootings is "How was the kid treated in school? Was he bullied, tormented, extremely socially rejected endlessly? Who was participating, to what level, and who was complicit? Everyone? Did anyone do anything about it on any significant, relevant scale? If the treatment is so bad, why didn't the parents pull him out for Homeschooling rather than torture? etc. etc.

Again, people do not like to consider such matters, and instead scapegoat the weapon of choice as the root cause of the issue--when, clearly, it is not. Logically, the same event could occur with bombs, suicide bombing, etc. etc. Furthermore, the reason why people do not like to consider it is that it destroys the "Disney Channel"/idealized-version of themselves, other people, and the world generally. As culpability is (often) partially reflected in the mirror.

 

[xMathFanx]

Part II:

What I would like to discuss is essentially what the Netflix series "13 Reasons Why" began to explore (which, apparently, many people were unable to handle). That is, the contributions your 'average' person makes to the daily suffering of others in their 'reach' through forms of extreme social rejection, bullying, dehumanization, etc., with the exceptions being very rare. Furthermore, how a person in such a perpetually painful/tormented state becomes necessarily 'unwell', often 'cries out for help' which goes ignored or the subject of further ridicule, deeper resentfulness builds as they become more withdrawn and is highly susceptible to lashing out in very dangerous, unhealthy, and counterproductive ways toward either themselves (i.e. self-harm, suicide) and/or to others in their personal mission of what is often imagined to be 'vigilante justice' on their behalf (i.e. hurting others who have often in some hurt them). (Side note: Consider the joke in Billy Madison, when Adam Sandler calls a guy from High School he used to bully, who then crosses his name off a 'hit list' once he hangs up the phone OR, in the movie "Full Metal Jacket").

I would add, the common euphuism/scapegoat is often 'mental health issues'--while, of course, anyone who is extremely socially rejected & ostracized (i.e. a 'social leper') will necessarily have substantial 'mental health issues'. Hence, why solitary confinement is internationally considered torture. If given the option, human beings would prefer to be around serial rapists, torturers, & murders at least part of the time rather than alone. It is a simple fact of our Biology, and much has been learnt about through Neuroscience & other disciplines, although, of course, much more research is necessary to gain further insights.

As just noted, quite a bit is now known about this phenomena as a matter Neuroscience/Biology, so the level of 'debate' occurring around it (or, rather, not happening) now is truly pathetic (dangerously so)--as, unfortunately, is often the case.

The reality is (which people are aware of, though want to 'brush under the rug'); Tragedies such as Columbine, Parkland, etc. would be logically impossible if even 20% (or less) of people were of high-level empathy--as the kids' lives would have been functionally completely different, which leads to superior mental health & stability, less resentment, etc. etc. [Note: Now, of course, there actually are some people with strictly innate mental health issues, though that is not what we are discussing here, in this context]

What would be interesting, though still highly tragic, would be if such a kid organized an effort very similar to what is portrayed in the movie "Seven Pounds" by Will Smith's character, rather than leaving the world as a mass murderer. That is, instead of focusing on all of the sh'tty people in the overwhelming majority who made their life 'hellish', seek out the rare 'good people' who may be in need, and offer what is possible through donations, including bone marrow, and organ donations prior to and upon self-inflicted death. In this way, they could get their story out, explain their reasoning, life experiences, etc. in a final letter to humanity which could potentially touch the 'hearts' of the 'average' person, who often/overwhelmingly contribute to the tragedy. This would give them that last bit of 'power'/'redemption' they are looking for--though, of course, the way it is happening now through mass murder is just absolutely nightmarish for everyone involved and is not going to help get through to people whatsoever; thus, perpetuating the cycle of torture & death, rather than throwing a 'wrench in the plans', as is often intended.

Link to "Seven Pounds" trailer here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MwrtEI-fcmM

 

[xMathFanx]

Part III:

Massacre at Columbine High

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a4K8YE1ZatU

1 hour long--well worth the time. Do note, particularly, the time between 31:00-34:00 minutes
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I found a few videos of people on YouTube discussing this topic. Links below:

(A) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=km1pF1WHvwc
(B ) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i8fH0Qt1AbQ
(C) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B6Xxn797OhY
(D) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8AHH9F8xA

Thoughts?

 

[Goshin]

Part III:

Massacre at Columbine High

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a4K8YE1ZatU

1 hour long--well worth the time. Do note, particularly, the time between 31:00-34:00 minutes
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I found a few videos of people on YouTube discussing this topic. Links below:

(A) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=km1pF1WHvwc
(B ) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i8fH0Qt1AbQ
(C) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B6Xxn797OhY
(D) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8AHH9F8xA

Thoughts?

Yeah. Killing people they felt had contributed to their misery, sparing some who'd been decent to them.

Not surprising really.

Thinking about this, and thinking about how I found school to be, I've come to seriously question whether packing hundreds or thousands of undeveloped minds into too little space with too little supervision and structure, where the authorities lack the capacity (or in some cases the will) to stop students from tormenting each other, was ever a good idea to start with.

From the age of 13 I felt school and prison had far too much in common... I'm 52 now and I still feel that way.

 

[Goshin]

You're asking the real questions here, and I thank you for it.


But many won't like it.... those are hard questions without simple sound-bite solutions, and many people don't appreciate having these things pointed out.

 

[xMathFanx]

You're asking the real questions here, and I thank you for it.


But many won't like it.... those are hard questions without simple sound-bite solutions, and many people don't appreciate having these things pointed out.

@Goshin

I agree that most people will not like to have this pointed out, as (nearly) everyone is implicated in some way or another (to varying degrees, of course--which is important). As I stated before, tragedies such as this would be logically impossible if even 20% (or less) of people were of high-level empathy--as the kids' lives would have been functionally completely different, which leads to superior mental health & stability, less resentment, etc. etc. [Note: Now, of course, there actually are some people with strictly innate mental health issues, though that is not what we are discussing here, in this context]


Then, a lot of people have a lot explaining to do--just as is depicted in "13 Reasons Why"; which, actually, is itself a 'Disney version' of what happens, and everyone knows it. Much easier to play the 'blame game'--which is exactly what we see.

 

[Cardinal]

The new right wing narrative is that the 17 murdered kids were bullies and Cruz is the real victim here.

I'm amazed that I still have the capacity to be surprised by how low Republicans will continue to lower the bar. You'd think I would have learned by now.

 

[Lursa]

Bullying has been recognized as a major factor in school shootings, not sure why you think it's being ignored.

It's also been a source of teen suicide. In these school shootings, suicide is also an expectation of the shooter, but they seem to choose to take their antagonists with them.

As for lack of empathy, the ADD and other drugs kids are on can contribute to that, as well as desensitizing from violence on TV, movies, video games.

Again...nothing new.

But girls are subjected to these things too...and they do, sadly, commit suicide when bullied...but it's much less common for them to commit violence against others.

We are creating these losers...and not just teens. The adult mass shooters we see have the same profile: they cannot manage their anger, control their feelings. They blame everyone else for their failures, they harbor jealousy, resentment, anger, etc etc against others and then *plan* and act on it. Few if any of these shooters acts on the spur of the moment. They imagine and plan and fantasize the harm they'll do...and then a spectacular (in their minds) death where they are glorified and escape consequences.

We need to figure out how to teach these males to deal with life better, because everyone has failures, loses a girlfriend or boyfriend, etc. But today's youth (and adult men) need to learn to take responsibility for their own decisions in life and handle it in a healthier manner.

These attacks do seem to be growing in number, starting with the postal-type workplace shootings in the 90s. (As an example). Apparently there are alot of men out there that feel society is 'against' them. Look at that loser Timothy McVeigh? He's a good example of one of these losers that a group encouraged and 'used'.

 

[xMathFanx]

The new right wing narrative is that the 17 murdered kids were bullies and Cruz is the real victim here.

I'm amazed that I still have the capacity to be surprised by how low Republicans will continue to lower the bar. You'd think I would have learned by now.

@Cardinal

You did not understand, or even attempt to understand, the position taken in the multi-part post to this Thread topic.

 

[apdst]

The new right wing narrative is that the 17 murdered kids were bullies and Cruz is the real victim here.

I'm amazed that I still have the capacity to be surprised by how low Republicans will continue to lower the bar. You'd think I would have learned by now.

Emma Gonzalez admitted to treating Cruz like ****. She justified it by claiming, "You didn't know this kid".

Of course what Cruz did was wrong and deserves to be executed for it, but his actions don't forgive the conduct of his classmates that may have driven him to it.

 

[xMathFanx]

Bullying has been recognized as a major factor in school shootings, not sure why you think it's being ignored.

@Lursa

Is there mainstream conversation as to how to identify, address, and self-reflect on peoples own (potential) participation in bullying--which is the norm (those who do not participate or actively attempt to do something about it in any significant way are in the extreme minority). Have there been massive marches on account of this? Or, are people attempting justify it as the norm?

 

[Cardinal]

Emma Gonzalez admitted to treating Cruz like ****.

Link?

I ask that purely as a formality because I know you no intention of providing a source for your claim.

 

[apdst]

Link?

I ask that purely as a formality because I know you no intention of providing a source for your claim.

You're asking because you rarely pay attention to anything outside your Leftist bubble.

Here is Gonzalez, in her own words...

https://youtu.be/9TOFaW9FgPA

 

[Cardinal]

You're asking because you rarely pay attention to anything outside your Leftist bubble.

Here is Gonzalez, in her own words...

https://youtu.be/9TOFaW9FgPA

Where's a clip of her full statement, apdst? (I know her full statement, by the way).

 

[apdst]

Where's a clip of her full statement, apdst?

That is her full statement, admitting she ostracized Cruz.

Of course you're going to be all, "nuh-uhhhh!". :lamo

 

[Cardinal]

That is her full statement, admitting she ostracized Cruz.

Of course you're going to be all, "nuh-uhhhh!". :lamo

Incorrect! That is, in fact, less than one third of her total statement. Want to try again?

 

[pragmatic]

The new right wing narrative is that the 17 murdered kids were bullies and Cruz is the real victim here.

I'm amazed that I still have the capacity to be surprised by how low Republicans will continue to lower the bar. You'd think I would have learned by now.

Not even close to accurate.

And these kind of childish/partisan retorts are what make it challenging to have discussions on a serious topic.

 

[Cardinal]

Not even close to accurate.

And these kind of childish/partisan retorts are what make it challenging to have discussions on a serious topic.

The OP is pseudo-intellectualism to disguise the fact that vilifying the Parkland survivors is precisely the intended implication, as you see right here in this thread by apdst. And all because kids want more gun control laws.

 

[Trinnity]

School Shootings: The 'Elephant in the Room'

No, it's that we're cheap. Schools need professional armed security and it's expensive. People don't want to pay for it. If you want to fix this problem, it really comes down to money.

 

[xMathFanx]

@apdst

Exactly.

It amazes me that the same people who argue 9/11, Middle East hatred/violence toward the West/US, etc. is at least partly predicated on Foreign Policy abuses by the West (i.e. unintended 'blowback'), do not take a similar stance as it relates to school shootings, but rather scapegoat the choice weapon of violence as the root cause. That is, does anyone doubt that (most) of these kids lives were made into a 'living Hell' by their peers, other people, etc. through bullying, extreme social rejection, etc. such as they often explicitly claim? If not, why do you doubt it--on what evidence(?) If so, why is not being addressed, sufficiently--but made peripheral(?) Attempt to explain how the two concepts are not related; if that is your position.

Note: When I say it 'amazes me...', I know why this happens (and it is unsurprising)--I am just asking for people to remain logically consistent and stand by their own claimed views/principles.

 

[Trinnity]

The OP is pseudo-intellectualism to disguise the fact that vilifying the Parkland survivors is precisely the intended implication, as you see right here in this thread by apdst. And all because kids want more gun control laws.

This is why kids aren't in charge. What they want is wrong. The Left says otherwise "oh oh for the kids sob sob" because it serves their gun-control agenda. It's disgusting to use those kids that way.

 

[xMathFanx]

No, it's that we're cheap. Schools need professional armed security and it's expensive. People don't want to pay for it. If you want to fix this problem, it really comes down to money.

@Trinity

The Security company I used to work for had a number of employees certified to carry a handgun on the job, and did such in many events (quite a few guards were off-duty cops, ex-military, etc.). However, for School detail, even though our company was contracted to do Middle Schools, High Schools, ect., guards were required to be unarmed for those shifts due to School policy--then, a lot of High Schools already have unarmed Security. All that would be required is to allow such certified guards to have the same standard as elsewhere. Of course, the issue then becomes; do we trust the authority figures with the lethal weapons

 

[Cardinal]

This is why kids aren't in charge. What they want is wrong.

Wanting to not be shot is wrong? That's interesting. You should tell them that.

 

[Trinnity]

Wanting to not be shot is wrong? That's interesting. You should tell them that.

Omg. Don't waste your time trolling me with word games.

 

[Lursa]

@Lursa

Is there mainstream conversation as to how to identify, address, and self-reflect on peoples own (potential) participation in bullying--which is the norm (those who do not participate or actively attempt to do something about it in any significant way are in the extreme minority). Have there been massive marches on account of this? Or, are people attempting justify it as the norm?

Marches on bullying? Not that I know of, but every march on tolerance: gays, LGBT, trans, is all about that. I have seen ZERO people trying to justify it as 'the norm', altho bullying has always existed and it exists beyond minors.

And yes, there are campaigns against bullying. See social media. There are commercials by media stars about ending bullying.

And...is there some reason you dont use the quote function?