Please explain Trumpsters: How is asking for dirt on a political opponent not against the law?

[BrotherFease]

I have the law right here:

52 U.S. Code SS 30121 - Contributions and donations by foreign nationals | U.S. Code | US Law | LII / Legal Information Institute

(a) ProhibitionIt shall be unlawful for—
(1) a foreign national, directly or indirectly, to make—
(A) a contribution or donation of money or other thing of value, or to make an express or implied promise to make a contribution or donation, in connection with a Federal, State, or local election;

It's pretty clear here. Trump asking a foreign government information on a political opponent is against the law. Your rebuttal is what?

You tell me why I am wrong. Keep in mind, I am a registered Republican and vote Republican most of the time and pulled the lever for him in 2016. So no he's a partisan here.

If you're going to argue, it's not really an "other thing of value", what in the world constitutes as "other thing of value"?

Also this is what the Federal Election Chair said back in August via twitter:

‘Let me make something 100% clear’: FEC chair lays down the law on foreign help - POLITICO

“Let me make something 100% clear to the American public and anyone running for public office: It is illegal for any person to solicit, accept, or receive anything of value from a foreign national in connection with a U.S. election,“

 

[Mycroft]

I have the law right here:

52 U.S. Code SS 30121 - Contributions and donations by foreign nationals | U.S. Code | US Law | LII / Legal Information Institute



It's pretty clear here. Trump asking a foreign government information on a political opponent is against the law. Your rebuttal is what?

You tell me why I am wrong. Keep in mind, I am a registered Republican and vote Republican most of the time and pulled the lever for him in 2016. So no he's a partisan here.

If you're going to argue, it's not really an "other thing of value", what in the world constitutes as "other thing of value"?

Also this is what the Federal Election Chair said back in August via twitter:

‘Let me make something 100% clear’: FEC chair lays down the law on foreign help - POLITICO

You should probably be asking the DOJ Criminal Division. They are the ones who ruled the campaign finance violation allegations in that concocted complaint were NOT campaign violations.

 

[BrotherFease]

You should probably be asking the DOJ Criminal Division. They are the ones who ruled the campaign finance violation allegations in that concocted complaint were NOT campaign violations.

I am asking you, how is asking for dirt on Biden NOT a campaign finance violation. Can you provide any counter point?

 

[Fledermaus]

I am asking you, how is asking for dirt on Biden NOT a campaign finance violation. Can you provide any counter point?

Because "asking for dirt" =/= "campaign finance violation."

 

[redbeer]

I have the law right here:

52 U.S. Code SS 30121 - Contributions and donations by foreign nationals | U.S. Code | US Law | LII / Legal Information Institute



It's pretty clear here. Trump asking a foreign government information on a political opponent is against the law. Your rebuttal is what?

You tell me why I am wrong. Keep in mind, I am a registered Republican and vote Republican most of the time and pulled the lever for him in 2016. So no he's a partisan here.

If you're going to argue, it's not really an "other thing of value", what in the world constitutes as "other thing of value"?

Also this is what the Federal Election Chair said back in August via twitter:

‘Let me make something 100% clear’: FEC chair lays down the law on foreign help - POLITICO

He did not ask for help on a political opponent, but asked when Joe Biden was VP to check into the firing of a prosecutor with the threat of withholding millions of dollars, which Joe actually did. That is a crime, is it not?

 

[OrphanSlug]

This thread is a waste of time, Trump supporters not only do not care about what he does but are supporting something happening to the whistleblower up to and including what happens to “enemy spies.”

At this point today’s Republicans are no better than those that support dictatorships, which makes sense as they would ‘rather be Russian than Democrats.’

 

[Mycroft]

I am asking you, how is asking for dirt on Biden NOT a campaign finance violation. Can you provide any counter point?

Do I look like a legal expert to you?

In any case, nobody asked anybody for dirt on Biden.

 

[Captain Adverse]

I have the law right here:

52 U.S. Code SS 30121 - Contributions and donations by foreign nationals | U.S. Code | US Law | LII / Legal Information Institute



It's pretty clear here. Trump asking a foreign government information on a political opponent is against the law. Your rebuttal is what?

You tell me why I am wrong. Keep in mind, I am a registered Republican and vote Republican most of the time and pulled the lever for him in 2016. So no he's a partisan here.

If you're going to argue, it's not really an "other thing of value", what in the world constitutes as "other thing of value"?

Also this is what the Federal Election Chair said back in August via twitter:

‘Let me make something 100% clear’: FEC chair lays down the law on foreign help - POLITICO

Trump was asking the Ukrainians to investigate possible corruption, citing several issues including the known self-admitted demand by the prior Administration that Ukraine fire a prosecutor or they won't get aid.

I.e. exactly the kind of "quid pro quo" that we do NOT see in the Trump memoranda of his recent conversation.

Meanwhile, we have a history of our government demanding investigations of this or that by foreign nations we are giving money to. Were there not people demanding investigations of Trump's "connections" to Russia during and after the campaign and his election? Asking foreign governments to "cooperate?" In fact he was compelled to authorize an investigation of HIMSELF when he knew he did nothing wrong.

If the memorandum of the call is true, there was no quid pro quo, but there was a request to look into various areas of corruption.

Our resident witch-hunters seem to have NO problem with investigations of Trump "corruption" on the slightest evidence or mere allegations. I would ask them this; how was anything Trump spoke of any different from what you demand about him on a daily basis?

 

[Athanasius68]

I am asking you, how is asking for dirt on Biden NOT a campaign finance violation. Can you provide any counter point?

It must not be one. The Clinton campaign received dirt on Trump indirectly from foreign sources. Not only did the Obama Admin not seek to prosecute the Clinton campaign for violations, they they used the dirt on court.

 

[ttwtt78640]

I am asking you, how is asking for dirt on Biden NOT a campaign finance violation. Can you provide any counter point?

What is your estimate of the value of information (dirt?) received by Trump from Ukraine in this case?

 

[Craig234]

It must not be one. The Clinton campaign received dirt on Trump indirectly from foreign sources. Not only did the Obama Admin not seek to prosecute the Clinton campaign for violations, they they used the dirt on court.

We're lucky trump is so incompetent. His criminal behavior is so easy to prove, because he's so bad at it. Anyone who was better at the crimes could easily hide them a lot better.

Calling information on crimes a 'thing of value' does seem a bit iffy. There's a lot of information on crimes that's appropriate and needed. Simply getting information from foreign sources isn't generally criminal IMO. Hillary hiring a firm that used a foreign source wasn't wrong. trump could do that, too. What he CAN'T do is pay for it using tax dollars or by withholding aid the government legislated to use tax dollars as a trading item for his personal gain.

This was clearly in the criminal 'nice place, be a shame if something happened to it' category. Anyone not in the trump cult can see that.

Governments pull this crap. The US twisted the arms of Sweden and Britain to get Julian Assange persecuted legally - but it wasn't for personal gain, like this was. If it turned out a Biden had done wrong, and trump had just asked for the information as legitimate law enforcement without the threat of withholding aid, without demanding the investigation find crimes, it wouldn't be as bad. But he's bad at crimes, so it's clear.

We could make a long list of crimes trump did badly and got caught on - take his payoffs under a secret name to hide sex days before the election, lying that he has no idea where the money came from.

 

[redbeer]

We're lucky trump is so incompetent. His criminal behavior is so easy to prove, because he's so bad at it. Anyone who was better at the crimes could easily hide them a lot better.

Calling information on crimes a 'thing of value' does seem a bit iffy. There's a lot of information on crimes that's appropriate and needed. Simply getting information from foreign sources isn't generally criminal IMO. Hillary hiring a firm that used a foreign source wasn't wrong. trump could do that, too. What he CAN'T do is pay for it using tax dollars or by withholding aid the government legislated to use tax dollars as a trading item for his personal gain.

This was clearly in the criminal 'nice place, be a shame if something happened to it' category. Anyone not in the trump cult can see that.

Governments pull this crap. The US twisted the arms of Sweden and Britain to get Julian Assange persecuted legally - but it wasn't for personal gain, like this was. If it turned out a Biden had done wrong, and trump had just asked for the information as legitimate law enforcement without the threat of withholding aid, without demanding the investigation find crimes, it wouldn't be as bad. But he's bad at crimes, so it's clear.

We could make a long list of crimes trump did badly and got caught on - take his payoffs under a secret name to hide sex days before the election, lying that he has no idea where the money came from.

He never threatened to withhold aid....that is the lie your lovely politicians are telling you....they lie to you.

 

[Mason66]

I have the law right here:

52 U.S. Code SS 30121 - Contributions and donations by foreign nationals | U.S. Code | US Law | LII / Legal Information Institute



It's pretty clear here. Trump asking a foreign government information on a political opponent is against the law. Your rebuttal is what?

You tell me why I am wrong. Keep in mind, I am a registered Republican and vote Republican most of the time and pulled the lever for him in 2016. So no he's a partisan here.

If you're going to argue, it's not really an "other thing of value", what in the world constitutes as "other thing of value"?

Also this is what the Federal Election Chair said back in August via twitter:

‘Let me make something 100% clear’: FEC chair lays down the law on foreign help - POLITICO

Do you not understand what an investigation is?

If I want to get away with crimes, I just need to announce I am running for President? Does that make any sense to you?

 

[Craig234]

He never threatened to withhold aid....that is the lie your lovely politicians are telling you....they lie to you.

Apparently, you can't read English. As I said, not only was it implied - the 'be a shame if anything happened to it' type threat - but trump has ALREADY withheld the aid.

 

[roguenuke]

He did not ask for help on a political opponent, but asked when Joe Biden was VP to check into the firing of a prosecutor with the threat of withholding millions of dollars, which Joe actually did. That is a crime, is it not?

No it's not. It is not a crime to refuse to give aid to a foreign country that was agreed upon in the first place to come with the the caveat that they had to things to stop corruption in their country. Shokin was viewed internationally as corrupt.

Sent from my SM-N970U using Tapatalk

 

[Fledermaus]

This thread is a waste of time.’

We agree, but for different reasons.

 

[BrotherFease]

Do you not understand what an investigation is?

If I want to get away with crimes, I just need to announce I am running for President? Does that make any sense to you?

Yes, I do know what an investigation is. Trump asking for dirt on political opponent is against the law, clearly stated in the OP.

 

[BrotherFease]

It must not be one. The Clinton campaign received dirt on Trump indirectly from foreign sources. Not only did the Obama Admin not seek to prosecute the Clinton campaign for violations, they they used the dirt on court.

So one form of corruption is used to justify another form of corruption? I figured this would be a defense of Criminal Trump.

 

[Mason66]

Yes, I do know what an investigation is. Trump asking for dirt on political opponent is against the law, clearly stated in the OP.

I am not sure if you know this, but Biden is not a political opponent of Trump. The primary is still in full swing and Biden has not won the nomination as of yet.

Biden is a political opponent of Warren and the others.

Right now, Biden is not running against Trump in any election.

I doubt that will change your idea that dirt was being dug up, but you really should know what reality is before jumping off the deep end.

 

[BrotherFease]

I am not sure if you know this, but Biden is not a political opponent of Trump. The primary is still in full swing and Biden has not won the nomination as of yet.

Biden is running for the Democratic nomination and beating Trump in the general. He's indeed a political opponent, seeing as how both are running for President, therefore campaign laws apply to both candidates.

It should be noted that Biden is leading in the electoral college over Trump. This would be a great incentive to weak his worst challenger.

 

[ClaraD]

Do I look like a legal expert to you?

In any case, nobody asked anybody for dirt on Biden.

Wouldn't you say dirt on your political opponent is receiving something of value? Seems pretty valuable to me...and last I checked the Ukraine is a foreign government

 

[Mycroft]

Wouldn't you say dirt on your political opponent is receiving something of value? Seems pretty valuable to me...and last I checked the Ukraine is a foreign government

sigh...

As I said, nobody asked anybody for dirt on Biden.

 

[Mason66]

Biden is running for the Democratic nomination and beating Trump in the general. He's indeed a political opponent, seeing as how both are running for President, therefore campaign laws apply to both candidates.

It should be noted that Biden is leading in the electoral college over Trump. This would be a great incentive to weak his worst challenger.

You think there is a general election going on right now?

You further think Biden is running for President even though he hasn't won the nomination for his party yet?

I don't think you know how American politics work.

 

[BrotherFease]

You think there is a general election going on right now?

You further think Biden is running for President even though he hasn't won the nomination for his party yet?

I don't think you know how American politics work.

I would ask the same question back.

I don't think you understand how the campaign laws work. Trump is running for President, so is Biden. We have two political figures running for President, therefore both are subjected to campaign laws. Polls ask people which you vote for Trump in 2020 or Biden. He's without a doubt, objectively and all, a political rival. We don't see polls where people ask whether they would support Mason or Trump for President.

 

[BrotherFease]

Wouldn't you say dirt on your political opponent is receiving something of value? Seems pretty valuable to me...and last I checked the Ukraine is a foreign government

There's no way around it. He's breaking the law, laid out crystal clear in my OP. Trumpsters are desperate to come up with something. There's even a poster here is who arguing that Biden is not a political rival.

Everyday we learn something new damaging against Trump. And now Giuliani, Barr, and Pompeo are implicated.