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Kobe Bryant Overrated?

calamity

calamity

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OK, the mourning period has been long enough. Now, we can criticize.

My biggest point: Kobe has only won the league MVP once. TBH, this came as a surprise.

Jabbar--6

Russell/Jordan--5

Wilt/Lebron--4

Moses, Magic and Bird--3

Kobe--1.


Wow!
 
So, who won MVP during the Kobe era?

Karl Malone, Nash & Duncan won two each. Jordan got his fifth. Shaq, Garnett, Dirk and Iverson all snagged one. So too did Rose and Durant. And, Lebron won all four of his MVP's during the Kobe years.

Hmm...
 
Is Kobe an NBA top 50?

Yes.

Is he top 10?

No.

Top 25?

Maybe.
 
I think he was cute. Does that count? Not into sports, obviously.
 
Moonglow said:
Eh, I don't pay attention to basketball..
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It's the only team sport where individual talent really matters. It's like as if a quarterback played defense too, like we did back in grade school.

Basketball would have a rival in baseball, but only if a great pitcher could start in every game. Hockey has it's goalies. And, of course, a guy like Gretzky can still dominate, but he only plays in short shifts. Great basketball players dominate the court for 90% of a game.

I can't think of any other team sport which showcases great athleticism like it does.
 
Here's some interesting useless trivia I uncovered while doing "research" for this thread.

Consider this–Milwaukee was in the playoffs for ten out of ten seasons during the 1980s. In the 27 seasons since the 80s ended, the Bucks have made the playoffs 11 times.

Over a third of the Bucks 28 playoff appearances in franchise history happened during the 1980s. Although the era is often overlooked because no rings were won during it, there’s no question it was the best stretch of Bucks basketball to ever happen.

Milwaukee Bucks: The 1980s Was Milwaukee's Golden Age
Click to expand...

How'd I stumble upon that? :shrug: Looking into Moses Malone led me to the Bucks losing to the 6'ers in the conference finals and the Celtics in successive years. I was like, "The Bucks? WTF?" I had no idea that the team was that damned good in the 80's."
 
Kobe's job was to sell stuff. He seems to have been effective at that.
 
calamity said:
OK, the mourning period has been long enough. Now, we can criticize.
Click to expand...

Exclusively looking to the number of winning league MVP as a measure of "overrated" is dubious at best. Was Kobe the absolute best the NBA has ever seen? Probably not... but his results, stats, and legacy speak for themselves.

Rankings and Stats...

Total number of points scored lifetime... 4th
Total number of playoff points scored lifetime... 5th
Total number of minutes played lifetime... 7th
Total number of playoff minutes played lifetime... 4th
Field Goals Made lifetime... 6th
Field Goals Average per Game lifetime... 3rd
Free Throws made lifetime... 3rd
Career total games... 14th
Career total steals... 16th
Total points per game career... 13th
3 Point shots made lifetime... 17th

Legacy...

The only player in NBA history with two different jersey numbers (8 and 24) retired by the same team.
Played 20 seasons for the Lakers, the 2nd longest in NBA history for a one team player trailing only Dirk Nowitzki’s 21 seasons in Dallas.
Was the first guard in league history to play 20 seasons, until Vince Carter stayed in and passed him.

Included in a 1st place 4 way tie with Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, Tim Duncan, and LeBron James for 15 career All-NBA selections, 11 of which were "first team" placing him in 2nd place all time.

122 games where he scored 40+ points, 3rd most in league history behind Wilt Chamberlain and Michael Jordan.
25 games where he scored 50+ points, again 3rd most in league history.
6 games where he scored 60+ points, 2nd only to Chamberlain.
He also has the 2nd highest single game scoring total in league history... 81 points against the Raptors in 2006.

Sure, only 1 league MVP but he also has 4 All-Star MVPs and no one else has done that.

Your opportunity to "criticize" is a joke.

Again, do I think he was the best ever? No, but he was not "overrated."
 
OrphanSlug said:
Exclusively looking to the number of winning league MVP as a measure of "overrated" is dubious at best. Was Kobe the absolute best the NBA has ever seen? Probably not... but his results, stats, and legacy speak for themselves.

Rankings and Stats...

Total number of points scored lifetime... 4th
Total number of playoff points scored lifetime... 5th
Total number of minutes played lifetime... 7th
Total number of playoff minutes played lifetime... 4th
Field Goals Made lifetime... 6th
Field Goals Average per Game lifetime... 3rd
Free Throws made lifetime... 3rd
Career total games... 14th
Career total steals... 16th
Total points per game career... 13th
3 Point shots made lifetime... 17th

Legacy...

The only player in NBA history with two different jersey numbers (8 and 24) retired by the same team.
Played 20 seasons for the Lakers, the 2nd longest in NBA history for a one team player trailing only Dirk Nowitzki’s 21 seasons in Dallas.
Was the first guard in league history to play 20 seasons, until Vince Carter stayed in and passed him.

Included in a 1st place 4 way tie with Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, Tim Duncan, and LeBron James for 15 career All-NBA selections, 11 of which were "first team" placing him in 2nd place all time.

122 games where he scored 40+ points, 3rd most in league history behind Wilt Chamberlain and Michael Jordan.
25 games where he scored 50+ points, again 3rd most in league history.
6 games where he scored 60+ points, 2nd only to Chamberlain.
He also has the 2nd highest single game scoring total in league history... 81 points against the Raptors in 2006.

Sure, only 1 league MVP but he also has 4 All-Star MVPs and no one else has done that.

Your opportunity to "criticize" is a joke.

Again, do I think he was the best ever? No, but he was not "overrated."
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Here's a list of the NBA top 25, listing Kobe way too high at number 9. Of course, the list sucks because its an "LA homer," as evidenced by them having Jordan at #3 behind Kareem and Magic. (J/K, there is a compelling argument to be made that Magic and Jabbar were better than Mike.)

NBA'''s Top 25 Greatest Players of All Time | Bleacher Report | Latest News, Videos and Highlights

Seriously though. How can they put Kobe ahead of Oscar, Moses, and Shaq? Wtf?
 
calamity said:
OK, the mourning period has been long enough. Now, we can criticize.

My biggest point: Kobe has only won the league MVP once. TBH, this came as a surprise.

Jabbar--6

Russell/Jordan--5

Wilt/Lebron--4

Moses, Magic and Bird--3

Kobe--1.


Wow!
Click to expand...

Kobe Bryant was not a thug. That counts when you are selling things other than brass knuckles.
 
Drawdown said:
Kobe's job was to sell stuff. He seems to have been effective at that.
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He definitely had the "it" factor. His fierce competitiveness made him standout, for sure. But, he wasn't exactly Scottie Pippen on defense, or Ray Allen from Three Point Land. He didn't shoot free throws like Steph, fly like Mike or pass like Magic.

Kobe was a good player on great teams. He only led said great teams once, the final title won in LA. I think that might have been his MVP year. But, all in all, Put Kobe on an average team and he would have been out of the league by age-30.
 
Not as a player.

Kobe Bryant Overrated?
 
dave8383 said:
You don't think he's a top ten?
Click to expand...
Top 10? No way.

Jordan, Magic, Kareem, Russell, Wilt, Bird, Oscar, Hakeem, Duncan, LeBron....He's not even in the same Zip Code as any of them.

Next we have,

Moses, Shaq, Jerry, The Midshipman (David Robinson) and KG. That's top 15. I don'see Kobe fitting in there at all.

Now, we can debate.

Somewhere among the list of Dr J, Isiah, James Worthy, Karl Malone, Charles Barkley, John Stockton, Ray Allen, Sidney Moncrief, Clyde Drexler, John Havlicek, Elgin, Pete Maravich, Elvin Hayes and a short list of other great players I cannot think of at the moment falls Kobe Bryant.

What about guys like Rick Berry, Bob Macadoo, Dave Cowens, Dave Debusschere, etc? I doubt they are ahead of Kobe, but they are in same conversation. For sure Kobe fits in with 15-30 more than he does 1-10.
 
jamesbyoung said:
Not as a player.

Kobe Bryant Overrated?
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See, on that, I am kind of the other way. As a man, someone who learned his lessons walking along the long roads of redemption, Kobe is tops, at least in my book. He stepped to the plate in being a good father. He fought through his challenges to remain married and not break up his family. He made amends to people he wronged. He might even be number One in that category.

On the hardwood, however, Kobe Bryant is somewhere between Isiah Thomas (the one from the 80's) and Karl Malone.
 
calamity said:
Jordan, Magic, Kareem, Russell, Wilt, Bird, Oscar, Hakeem, Duncan, LeBron....He's not even in the same Zip Code as any of them.



What about guys like Rick Berry, Bob Macadoo, Dave Cowens, Dave Debusschere, etc? I doubt they are ahead of Kobe, but they are in same conversation. For sure Kobe fits in with 15-30 more than he does 1-10.
Click to expand...

I pretty much agree with your top ten. Secondly, I'm glad you mentioned Cowens. Animalistic.
 
dave8383 said:
I pretty much agree with your top ten. Secondly, I'm glad you mentioned Cowens. Animalistic.
Click to expand...

I was a big fan of his during my youth.

Here's some surprising Trivia

As a testament to his all-around ability, Cowens is one of only five players (Scottie Pippen, Kevin Garnett, LeBron James, and Giannis Antetokounmpo are the others) to lead his team in all five major statistical categories for a season: points, rebounds, assists, blocks, and steals. He accomplished the feat in the 1977–78 season, averaging 18.6 points, 14.0 rebounds, 4.6 assists, 0.9 blocks and 1.3 steals as Boston finished 32-50.

Dave Cowens - Wikipedia
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Kobe the best ever.. Nooooo...

But top 10? IDK...In team sports 'ranking' players, especially from different Eras is 'difficult'. But anyway if you're putting Bird in the top 10, then Kobe got to be there too. Because Kobe was better than Bird. IMO....
 
calamity said:
See, on that, I am kind of the other way. As a man, someone who learned his lessons walking along the long roads of redemption, Kobe is tops, at least in my book. He stepped to the plate in being a good father. He fought through his challenges to remain married and not break up his family. He made amends to people he wronged. He might even be number One in that category.

On the hardwood, however, Kobe Bryant is somewhere between Isiah Thomas (the one from the 80's) and Karl Malone.
Click to expand...

How did he make amends to the young woman he raped????????
 
Bucky said:
How did he make amends to the young woman he raped????????
Click to expand...

Seems that both parties came to an agreement. You can read about it.
 
SenorXm/Sirius said:
Kobe the best ever.. Nooooo...

But top 10? IDK...In team sports 'ranking' players, especially from different Eras is 'difficult'. But anyway if you're putting Bird in the top 10, then Kobe got to be there too. Because Kobe was better than Bird. IMO....
Click to expand...

I used to think Bird was overrated because he was white. But, then I saw a bunch of his clips from the early 80’s. Dude was the best player on a very good team. Kobe was second best for most of his career. I want to say Isaiah Thomas was slightly better than Kobe for that reason alone. Bird was better than both.
 
calamity said:
It's the only team sport where individual talent really matters. It's like as if a quarterback played defense too, like we did back in grade school.

Basketball would have a rival in baseball, but only if a great pitcher could start in every game. Hockey has it's goalies. And, of course, a guy like Gretzky can still dominate, but he only plays in short shifts. Great basketball players dominate the court for 90% of a game.

I can't think of any other team sport which showcases great athleticism like it does.
Click to expand...

Basketball particularly at the NBA level and more and more at the college level has become less and less of a team game. It has become more and more of a showcase for a few gifted offensive players as the "team" spreads the floor and allows a player to go one on one over and over. It may be several players on each team doing this but the bulk of scoring is done in the old "give and go" strategy. Give me the ball and watch me go. I can hardly watch basketball at the higher levels anymore.
 
calamity said:
I used to think Bird was overrated because he was white. But, then I saw a bunch of his clips from the early 80’s. Dude was the best player on a very good team. Kobe was second best for most of his career. I want to say Isaiah Thomas was slightly better than Kobe for that reason alone. Bird was better than both.
Click to expand...

Well you made your point earlier that Kobe was surrounded by a lot of talent on those Laker teams. IMO the Celtic teams Bird was on had a hell of a lot of talent too, more than those Laker teams. The Bird, Kevin McHale and Robert Parish front court may be 1 of the best front courts in the history of the NBA. And front courts were important in the way the NBA game was played back then. Nowadays in the 3 point shot on every play era? They mean nothing, but back then front courts was all important, and the Celtics and Bird had 2 of the the best playing with him.
 
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