If Medicare for All is so bad, what should Americans have instead?

[Patriotic Voter]

I am not sure what to think about Medicare for All - whether it specifically is the right idea or something else should be made up by the federal government. But this much is clear: private health insurance companies are to blame for millions of patients not getting what they need every day. Conservatives are constantly criticizing the MFA proposals without offering any alternative ideas that would take for-profit insurers out of the picture. What is wrong with MFA and what is a better single player plan for American health care? (Note: Universal health care coverage is an obligation the government has to serve the American people, so nothing involving private insurance companies will be accepted.)

 

[cpwill]

I am not sure what to think about Medicare for All - whether it specifically is the right idea or something else should be made up by the federal government. But this much is clear: private health insurance companies are to blame for millions of patients not getting what they need every day.

No. The fact that some of our market is partially privatized is why we have so much healthcare. Our crises is that we mostly do our over-purchasing through a socialized pre-payment system, which causes the cost of that pre-payment system to skyrocket.

Conservatives are constantly criticizing the MFA proposals without offering any alternative ideas that would take for-profit insurers out of the picture

Largely because we don't think we should take for profit insurers out of the picture, any more than we should remove life insurers or auto insurers.

What is wrong with MFA and what is a better single player plan for American health care?

1. We can't afford it.
2. We shouldn't have a single payer program for health spending any more than we should have one for food, housing, automobiles, or movie tickets.
3. We can't afford it.
4. State Run Industries suck.
5. We can't afford it.

(Note: Universal health care coverage is an obligation the government has to serve the American people,

No it isn't. We may decide as a nation that we want to do that, but there is no positive right to have the government go out and take stuff from someone else so that they can give it to you to spend on medical expenses.

so nothing involving private insurance companies will be accepted.)

Cool. That makes about as much sense as a Conservative asking you what your plan is that involves only private health insurance and no government spending.

 

[Drawdown]

I am not sure what to think about Medicare for All - whether it specifically is the right idea or something else should be made up by the federal government. But this much is clear: private health insurance companies are to blame for millions of patients not getting what they need every day. Conservatives are constantly criticizing the MFA proposals without offering any alternative ideas that would take for-profit insurers out of the picture. What is wrong with MFA and what is a better single player plan for American health care? (Note: Universal health care coverage is an obligation the government has to serve the American people, so nothing involving private insurance companies will be accepted.)

First, just because someone comes up with an idea doesn't mean that the opposition is duty bound to put forth a counter idea. The onus is on the side that offers the idea to make their case. If they can't, then so be it.

More specifically I oppose medicare for all because "taxing the top 1% to pay for it" is not a viable financing option, medicare is not the greatest insurance in the world to begin with, and low reimbursement rates would drastically reduce quality of care and access to meaningful medicine. We just need to cover that last 10%. That is all.

 

[swing_voter]

I am not sure what to think about Medicare for All - whether it specifically is the right idea or something else should be made up by the federal government. But this much is clear: private health insurance companies are to blame for millions of patients not getting what they need every day. Conservatives are constantly criticizing the MFA proposals without offering any alternative ideas that would take for-profit insurers out of the picture. What is wrong with MFA and what is a better single player plan for American health care? (Note: Universal health care coverage is an obligation the government has to serve the American people, so nothing involving private insurance companies will be accepted.)

What happens if they implement it and it sucks? Then we're stuck with it forever.

 

[Patriotic Voter]

What happens if they implement it and it sucks? Then we're stuck with it forever.

That can be said about any health care plan. Why would you expect MFA to suck?

 

[Luther]

I am not sure what to think about Medicare for All - whether it specifically is the right idea or something else should be made up by the federal government. But this much is clear: private health insurance companies are to blame for millions of patients not getting what they need every day. Conservatives are constantly criticizing the MFA proposals without offering any alternative ideas that would take for-profit insurers out of the picture. What is wrong with MFA and what is a better single player plan for American health care? (Note: Universal health care coverage is an obligation the government has to serve the American people, so nothing involving private insurance companies will be accepted.)

Why should people who are happy with their insurance be forced into such a folly?

 

[Patriotic Voter]

Why should people who are happy with their insurance be forced into such a folly?

Why do you think it is a folly?

You probably are the healthiest person alive if you don't pay thousands of dollars a year to a health insurance company that only cares about the bottom line or have Medicare.

 

[Luther]

Why do you think it is a folly?

You probably are the healthiest person alive if you don't pay thousands of dollars a year to a health insurance company that only cares about the bottom line or have Medicare.

You did a great job of not answering(LOL)

Again, why should people who get their healthcare through their employer now have to pay?

 

[ttwtt78640]

That can be said about any health care plan. Why would you expect MFA to suck?

The same reason that the federal government mandating $1 hamburgers would suck. Sure it would be great to have the all mighty federal government simply mandtate that medical procedure X will now cost 50% (or 60%) less, but that is not to say that medical care providers will jump at the chance to make 50% (or 60%) less.

 

[Patriotic Voter]

You did a great job of not answering(LOL)

Again, why should people who get their healthcare through their employer now have to pay?

They already do. Medicare is listed on their pay stubs IIRC.

One of the problems with private health insurance is what happens after people lose their jobs or resign. Now what health insurance do they have? Their next employer could be contracted with a different health insurance company, forcing them to start over to get a new doctor, all medications covered, etc. With a single-payer system nobody would have to waste time switching from one company to another like this. Every time it happened to me, I went months without one of my medications before it was approved by the next health insurance company. Who would not like the ability to keep the same health insurance everywhere without being tied to their jobs?

 

[Patriotic Voter]

So where are all the proposals to guarantee every American has health care as a fundamental right without MFA?

 

[PIPEWRENCH]

What happens if they implement it and it sucks? Then we're stuck with it forever.

There is no question at first it will have lots of problems. It is something that will need constant changes to make it better until it is something we would never do without.

 

[PIPEWRENCH]

I am not sure what to think about Medicare for All - whether it specifically is the right idea or something else should be made up by the federal government. But this much is clear: private health insurance companies are to blame for millions of patients not getting what they need every day. Conservatives are constantly criticizing the MFA proposals without offering any alternative ideas that would take for-profit insurers out of the picture. What is wrong with MFA and what is a better single player plan for American health care? (Note: Universal health care coverage is an obligation the government has to serve the American people, so nothing involving private insurance companies will be accepted.)

We need true single payer. If you have to pay out of pocket or buy insurance to supplement it then people will still go without health care because they cannot afford the additional cost.

 

[Luther]

They already do. Medicare is listed on their pay stubs IIRC.

One of the problems with private health insurance is what happens after people lose their jobs or resign. Now what health insurance do they have? Their next employer could be contracted with a different health insurance company, forcing them to start over to get a new doctor, all medications covered, etc. With a single-payer system nobody would have to waste time switching from one company to another like this. Every time it happened to me, I went months without one of my medications before it was approved by the next health insurance company. Who would not like the ability to keep the same health insurance everywhere without being tied to their jobs?

They already do. Medicare is listed on their pay stubs IIRC.

Is that not different than Medicare for all?

 

[Patriotic Voter]

Is that not different than Medicare for all?

It is a line item for your federal income tax. What workers see on their pay stubs is they are paying for someone else's health care.

 

[ludin]

Why do you think it is a folly?

You probably are the healthiest person alive if you don't pay thousands of dollars a year to a health insurance company that only cares about the bottom line or have Medicare.

why can't you answer his question?
I like my private healthcare coverage. I enjoy it very much
and by all means it is cheaper than any government run plan out there right now.

why should i have to give up healthcare insurance that i like for something else that isn't as good?

 

[ludin]

It is a line item for your federal income tax. What workers see on their pay stubs is they are paying for someone else's health care.

yes it is called FICA.

 

[ataraxia]

Why should people who are happy with their insurance be forced into such a folly?

I am wondering if healthcare insurance and medical care can be thought of like public schools: the public program is there for the people who want them. But if someone has the means and wants to pay for a private school for their kid outside of the public system, it's not illegal.

I think the Brits and Germans have a parallel private system for those who want to pay for it. It's not illegal

 

[cpwill]

So where are all the proposals to guarantee every American has health care as a fundamental right without MFA?

So, to be clear, your question is "Why don't people who disagree with my presuppositions find different ways to agree with my presuppositions?"

 

[ataraxia]

why can't you answer his question?
I like my private healthcare coverage. I enjoy it very much
and by all means it is cheaper than any government run plan out there right now.

why should i have to give up healthcare insurance that i like for something else that isn't as good?

Most seniors I know can't wait to turn 65 to get Medicare. They don't have to. And certainly a few of them refuse Medicare and stay with their private insurance. But the vast majority don't. And it's not like they are poor. I know they could certainly afford to stay with their private plan if they wanted. So why would they go to Medicare?

 

[Patriotic Voter]

So, to be clear, your question is "Why don't people who disagree with my presuppositions find different ways to agree with my presuppositions?"

My question was clear. What do you want the government to do to fix health care if you hate MFA proposals?

 

[cpwill]

My question was clear. What do you want the government to do to fix health care if you hate MFA proposals?

Actually your question came with all your own preferences loaded in it. This is a much better question.

 

[GottaGo]

My question was clear. What do you want the government to do to fix health care if you hate MFA proposals?

Consider this: why should the government be involved in personal health decisions at all?

Perhaps a system for those of the low/no income group, and leave everybody else alone. You know, sorta like what currently exists?

Only to add more sliding scale clinics, which would reduce the ER congestion and expense for non life-threatening situations, and have people pay a minimum so they have skin in the game, without financially breaking them.

 

[Patriotic Voter]

Consider this: why should the government be involved in personal health decisions at all?

Perhaps a system for those of the low/no income group, and leave everybody else alone. You know, sorta like what currently exists?

Only to add more sliding scale clinics, which would reduce the ER congestion and expense for non life-threatening situations, and have people pay a minimum so they have skin in the game, without financially breaking them.

If what currently exists was good for everyone, nobody would ever talk about changing it. The reality is it is good for nobody who needs more than annual wellness exams and OTC drugs.

 

[GottaGo]

If what currently exists was good for everyone, nobody would ever talk about changing it. The reality is it is good for nobody who needs more than annual wellness exams and OTC drugs.

And who are the proponents that want it changed? Oh, and what were they calling it? Medicare for all?

There are many ways to address things, and forcing it on everybody including those who do not want it or need it, is not the way to go.